Should Kathleen Kennedy be let go from the Star Wars megaproject?

[Karha of Honor]

Just thinking about the events of the ST chronologically ticks me off at the incoherence of it all. In The Force Awakens, a brand new Republic has no military of its own and is unconcerned with this suspiciously Empire-like group seizing all of the Empire's old assets. In short order, a super weapon destroys several New Republic planets. In response, this Resistance group destroys the First Order's big secret weapon. Then, a matter of days later, the First Order is chasing around the last remnants of the Resistance? Holdo light speed rams multiple ships, including their big capital ship, and a matter of hours later they're still cornered by still more First Order people. And the rest of the universe just doesn't give a crap despite the Republic being destroyed a couple days. But somehow the image of Luke Skywalker showing up for a couple minutes to about two dozen Resistance people is going to "inspire the galaxy"?

You know, before TFA came out I was arguing with a friend about how ridiculous that it would be if the Empire some how outlasted the original trilogy, based on some rumors I heard at the time. I guess my vision for ridiculousness is too limited.

The EU had an interesting vision of that.

And on the tweet itself, there are numerous people calling it a false flag,

Of course it's all a sinister plot to make Star Wars fans look bad.

I learned not to understimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war left.

People tought politics will boost a blockbuster. Aka Sony.

[unknownsample]

I learned not to understimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war left.

That's interesting I learned not to underestimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war right.

http://www.indiewire.com/2018/01/mens-r ... 201917805/

[Worffan101]

Definitely agree that the lazy worldbuilding of Ep. 7 has hurt them long-run.

Why does one have to be a racist to have problems with SJW's? What definition are you using exactly.

The definition that every single time I've seen people whining about "culture wars" and "SJWs" it's coming from an alt-right guy in a YouTube comment section?

When someone on the left is exasperated they typically say something like "I am SO FUCKING TIRED of having to have every single taste or decision I have or make micro-analyzed. Some of us like problematic things! I don't fucking care that Marvel isn't diverse enough, it's more diverse than the other options and their movies are fun damn it!"

I hope all that makes sense.

It does, I just want to add: Both Rogue One and Solo suffer from a secondary issue, other than already having a more limiting scope in regard to audience attraction or appeal. Both movies were extensively rewritten even while being shot and in the case of Solo even after it was shot. Solo in particular takes the cake in that regard, as they apparently almost made a completely new movie, bloating the budget onto unrecoverable levels of stupid. This makes them both extraordinarily expensive and suffer from many of the typical "studio-mandate-change"-issues.

As for TLJ, what strikes me as completely insane is the fact, that the movie straight out assassinates it's characters. It's understandable that the people in charge do not necessarily know about the characters in detail, but if the guy who played Luke Skywalker three times and who is critically acclaimed and not just a random schmuck actor tells you, that the character he is playing in this movie is not Luke Skywalker, then you maybe should think long and hard about what you are doing with the movie.

I know, right? It's like they completely ignored that Luke had character development! What the FUCK were they thinking???

And that "romance" with Rose and Finn, why would they gut Rose's character like that??? The whole scene was so horribly awkward and she spent the whole movie being so badly misused, how could they waste a character that interesting like that?

[unknownsample]

Lets not feed the troll. There's a literary quote about arguing with reason and logic to those who have abandoned such qualities is like administering medicine to the dead. I invoke it whenever trolls try to take up peoples time.

Troll = Someone whose opinions differs from yours. Oh and if Disney are paying me what am I doing on this forum?

[SlackerinDeNile]

With all due respect maybe this thread ought to be shut down.
I was afraid that this forum might degenerate into the usual petty accusations and bickering that occur when geeks disagree over something or can't accept that people in the same fandom have different opinions.

Look I'm aware that both the Wars and Trek fandoms are currently going through the same political upheaval and conflict that's going on just about everywhere else in Western culture and that people are verbally sparring over whether or not they like the new iterations of their respective franchises, but can't we all just get along? Aren't we as SFDebris fans more civil and intellectual than this? Can't we have a more eloquent, meaningful and accepting debate?

Sorry to be such a hippy (or a soyboy if you prefer) but I'm getting real sick of seeing the same arguments (and often the same insults) over the same things and seeing nobody get anywhere worthwhile with them.

[unknownsample]

With all due respect maybe this thread ought to be shut down.
I was afraid that this forum might degenerate into the usual petty accusations and bickering that occur when geeks disagree over something or can't accept that people in the same fandom have different opinions.

Look I'm aware that both the Wars and Trek fandoms are currently going through the same political upheaval and conflict that's going on just about everywhere else in Western culture and that people are verbally sparring over whether or not they like the new iterations of their respective franchises, but can't we all just get along? Aren't we as SFDebris fans more civil and intellectual than this? Can't we have a more eloquent, meaningful and accepting debate?

Sorry to be such a hippy (or a soyboy if you prefer) but I'm getting real sick of seeing the same arguments (and often the same insults) over the same things and seeing nobody get anywhere worthwhile with them.

Yes indeed according to one user I am a Disney Bot or paid social media troll based on the fact that I on the whole like the Disney Star Wars films. Now whilst I've laughed it off on reflection that has really pissed me off so much so that I ended up punching a wall, because that's how mad I was at having my opinion devalued like that. What is one of Chuck's central tenants? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

In the case of Star Wars fandom it seems to me that there is a toxic minority within that fandom who are opposed to women, POC and in the case of Aftermath gay characters. Now personally none of those things bother me, maybe it's the Doctor Who fan within me but having gay characters or women isn't the end of the world for me.

[MyUserName]

With all due respect maybe this thread ought to be shut down.
I was afraid that this forum might degenerate into the usual petty accusations and bickering that occur when geeks disagree over something or can't accept that people in the same fandom have different opinions.

Look I'm aware that both the Wars and Trek fandoms are currently going through the same political upheaval and conflict that's going on just about everywhere else in Western culture and that people are verbally sparring over whether or not they like the new iterations of their respective franchises, but can't we all just get along? Aren't we as SFDebris fans more civil and intellectual than this? Can't we have a more eloquent, meaningful and accepting debate?

Sorry to be such a hippy (or a soyboy if you prefer) but I'm getting real sick of seeing the same arguments (and often the same insults) over the same things and seeing nobody get anywhere worthwhile with them.

I'm not sure closing down this thread is the right idea. Maybe a warning to those who are obnoxiously flame baiting others. Such people can be ignored, but they can also just annoy people on the entire message board and make them less likely to participate in discussions.

One thing closing down the thread will do is encourage those who feel it's appropriate to annoy and attack those with differing ideas and give them a sense of empowerment, when they just need to either add something pertinent or shove off.

And back to my point of Lucasfilm allowing twitter wars to happen, john boyega has simultaneously proven my NDA theory wrong, then proved my point about Lucasfilms PR encouraging these attacks by having him engage in some mild flame wars with fans. Mark Hamil stepped in and tried to jokingly diffuse the situation, good on him by the way, but the anti-Kennedy YouTube channels already flew in both on twitter and YouTube and are having a field day with it.

I do have to wonder if having the STARS themselves involved in flame wars will cause Disney to step in. Disney has to at some point. The longer this goes, the more money they stand to lose.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

1. The Super Weapon destroyed the capital of the New Republic, all their political leaders, military leaders et cetera

2. The First Order knew the location of the resistance base, the resistance also knew this and so decided to flee, but whilst their fleeing the First Order turns up.

3. More First Order people/ their entire fleet clearly wasn't destroyed, The Supremacy was badly damaged but still intact, so those First Order troops very likely came from there.

4. Universe don't you mean galaxy? How do you know they don't give a crap?

1. I get that that's the intention, but why were all the New Republic leaders on the same system within spitting distance of Starkiller Base? The Old Republic took decades to be obliterated. The death star needed half an hour to get within firing range after entering the Yavin system, so how can this superweapon have that kind of range- does the weapon blast travel through hyperspace? Why could the Resistance see it all happen and instantly know what happened? Starkiller Base is just a poorly conceived plot device, without even considering that its a Death Star knockoff.

2 & 3.- My point here is that they were able to recover almost instantaneously, and those losses are completely shrugged off. If the First Order is that powerful, then it makes no sense for them to be ignored by the New Republic and the rest of the galaxy, which they obviously were.

4. I should say galaxy. And we know they don't give a crap because that was a key point toward the end of The Last Jedi, when no one would bother to answer the Resistance's calls for help. Heck, that was actually one of the (largely lost) points of Canto Bight, that people were willing to overlook the First Order because it benefited them financially. That's why Luke's trick at the end is important, because it's supposedly going to inspire a new rebellion. Although honestly, I don't know why doing the same thing as any holographic projection could do is supposed to be such a great accomplishment. It certainly doesn't redeem Luke's behavior in my eyes.

I learned not to understimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war left.

People tought politics will boost a blockbuster. Aka Sony.

I don't think Star Wars is especially liberal though, at least not in the sense of pushing some sort of anti-conservative agenda, and I don't like the fact that the alt-right has become the face of "sequel trilogy criticism."


I think there's plenty of substantive criticisms that can be made without resorting to name-calling on either side. I don't like that fans are called shills, and I don't like that honest detractors are lumped in (including by Disney at times, to be honest) with racists and whoever else. I don't think all that noise is at the heart of the discontent- if Black Panther and Wonder Woman could survive troll attempts and go on to have very positive receptions, then it makes no sense that TLJ couldn't as well, unless there's something more going on than politics.

[MyUserName]

1. The Super Weapon destroyed the capital of the New Republic, all their political leaders, military leaders et cetera

2. The First Order knew the location of the resistance base, the resistance also knew this and so decided to flee, but whilst their fleeing the First Order turns up.

3. More First Order people/ their entire fleet clearly wasn't destroyed, The Supremacy was badly damaged but still intact, so those First Order troops very likely came from there.

4. Universe don't you mean galaxy? How do you know they don't give a crap?

1. I get that that's the intention, but why were all the New Republic leaders on the same system within spitting distance of Starkiller Base? The Old Republic took decades to be obliterated. The death star needed half an hour to get within firing range after entering the Yavin system, so how can this superweapon have that kind of range- does the weapon blast travel through hyperspace? Why could the Resistance see it all happen and instantly know what happened? Starkiller Base is just a poorly conceived plot device, without even considering that its a Death Star knockoff.

2 & 3.- My point here is that they were able to recover almost instantaneously, and those losses are completely shrugged off. If the First Order is that powerful, then it makes no sense for them to be ignored by the New Republic and the rest of the galaxy, which they obviously were.

4. I should say galaxy. And we know they don't give a crap because that was a key point toward the end of The Last Jedi, when no one would bother to answer the Resistance's calls for help. Heck, that was actually one of the (largely lost) points of Canto Bight, that people were willing to overlook the First Order because it benefited them financially. That's why Luke's trick at the end is important, because it's supposedly going to inspire a new rebellion. Although honestly, I don't know why doing the same thing as any holographic projection could do is supposed to be such a great accomplishment. It certainly doesn't redeem Luke's behavior in my eyes.

I learned not to understimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war left.

People tought politics will boost a blockbuster. Aka Sony.

I don't think Star Wars is especially liberal though, at least not in the sense of pushing some sort of anti-conservative agenda, and I don't like the fact that the alt-right has become the face of "sequel trilogy criticism."


I think there's plenty of substantive criticisms that can be made without resorting to name-calling on either side. I don't like that fans are called shills, and I don't like that honest detractors are lumped in (including by Disney at times, to be honest) with racists and whoever else. I don't think all that noise is at the heart of the discontent- if Black Panther and Wonder Woman could survive troll attempts and go on to have very positive receptions, then it makes no sense that TLJ couldn't as well, unless there's something more going on than politics.

In regards to politics in SW, I honestly dont understand how some people say SW is a political film. Saying that SW having mentions of political themes and moments makes it a political film is like saying a racing scene in any james bond film makes it a film about racing. SW has political themes, but has used those themes to tell a classic heartfelt story about good vs evil, and what makes a character both. The closest genre it fits in is Sci-fi/fantasy.

This is one area where the new films, and in some ways the franchise, fall flat on their face. The political moments in the films arent there to tell a story, but to lampshade the opinions of the creators. Pansexual Lando, woke droid with the Leet Speak name, The Force is Female, Wendigs identity politics pandering, the focus on female characters and the bashing of the fandom when we call them lame. It's been one thing after another.

[Karha of Honor]

I learned not to understimate the idiocy of the people spearheading the modern culture war left.

People tought politics will boost a blockbuster. Aka Sony.

I don't think Star Wars is especially liberal though, at least not in the sense of pushing some sort of anti-conservative agenda, and I don't like the fact that the alt-right has become the face of "sequel trilogy criticism."


I think there's plenty of substantive criticisms that can be made without resorting to name-calling on either side. I don't like that fans are called shills, and I don't like that honest detractors are lumped in (including by Disney at times, to be honest) with racists and whoever else. I don't think all that noise is at the heart of the discontent- if Black Panther and Wonder Woman could survive troll attempts and go on to have very positive receptions, then it makes no sense that TLJ couldn't as well, unless there's something more going on than politics.

Why did we have to introduce the concept of class to SW?

Definitely agree that the lazy worldbuilding of Ep. 7 has hurt them long-run.

Why does one have to be a racist to have problems with SJW's? What definition are you using exactly.

The definition that every single time I've seen people whining about "culture wars" and "SJWs" it's coming from an alt-right guy in a YouTube comment section?

When someone on the left is exasperated they typically say something like "I am SO FUCKING TIRED of having to have every single taste or decision I have or make micro-analyzed. Some of us like problematic things! I don't fucking care that Marvel isn't diverse enough, it's more diverse than the other options and their movies are fun damn it!"

So all right wingers who think the cuuting edge of progressivism makes just one mistake are racists?

What?