Angels Take Manhattan (DW)

[Dindu]

The Statue of Liberty is, yes, incredibly stupid.
It is, of course, only there to put in the trailer and promo shots. It's disengenuous but makes no odds to the plot and can be mentally erased, just as it should not have been included in the episode proper.

IMHO, the only thing missing from Blink was a line explaining that if you move an angelled victim from their 'feeding' timeline, they just die straight away.
Everything about the Angels after Blink just turned them into a joke, and that's after they created an enemy that can be defeated by a galvanised bucket and a sledgehammer.

But if I get started on the fridge idiocy of the Angels I'll still be writing by midnight. I mean, they can't move if someone can see them, but why only see, why not, say, radar, or sonar? And why people? What about cats? Mice? Beetles?And they turn to stone, implying they're not stonewhen they are moving, so, what are they, meaty things?and as for turning anything that looks on them into an angel, well, unbelievably shit. I mean, seriously...

- - -

The Reapers were just poor writing. They contradict a huge number of prior stories. They're poorly thought out. They replaced a known and generally effective DW mechanism that prevented exactly the situation they had. They never came back in any subsequent episode where they, logically, should have done. Personally, I don't count the episode in my headspace.

Of course, then again, almost all of nuwho has been expunged from my headspace, so.

[Killerbee256]

"Of course, then again, almost all of nuwho has been expunged from my headspace, so." I feel the same way, I much prefer the classic episodes.

[StrangeDevice]

The part when he says, "I don't want to go." Pissed me off SO MUCH.
I hate when a heroic character can't face death with dignity.

Compare to another thinking man's superhero, Blue Beetle, who remains defiant to the end.

Honestly, it was probably better than how the Seventh Doctor went. He died afraid and alone by a completely avoidable accident, kicking and screaming on a San Francisco hospital operating table. As Death had promised him, after he'd suffered a hearts attack and was recovering at a companion's funeral. They were both tragic figures in their own way, both completely unwilling to accept death. Albeit each for their own reasons. Hell, the Eleventh Doctor was able to do something his predecessor kept trying to do, but never really could because the pain was too fresh. Move on.

The Reapers were just poor writing. They contradict a huge number of prior stories. They're poorly thought out. They replaced a known and generally effective DW mechanism that prevented exactly the situation they had. They never came back in any subsequent episode where they, logically, should have done. Personally, I don't count the episode in my headspace.

I reckon their appearance was the result of the Bad Wolf entity that got created at that first season's climax and that they exist in the same space as something like the Horror from Dead Romance or the Chronovores from The Time Monster. Vortex wildlife that shouldn't have been able to find its way through into normal space-time, except for Rose's timeline being so weakened by being turned into a mnemonic entity (and back again), they were able to poke through and wreak havoc.

The Web of Time probably stopped crap like that happening, but with the Time Lords (for all intents and purposes) gone and the causal nexus still freshly scarred, these things happen.

Of course, then again, almost all of nuwho has been expunged from my headspace, so.

And then crap got not only self-contradictory but irreconcilably bad like Kill the Moon or In the Forests of the Night. The past couple years have not been good to the programme when it comes to things like puzzling out little gaps in logic. The Name/Day/Time of the Doctor trilogy are enough to give people aneurysms with the problems they present.

[Dindu]

with the Time Lords (for all intents and purposes) gone

Well, this would be one of those foundational problems with the entire nuwho experiment; having no one in the team who understands why this is a contradiction in terms.

[Crowley]

The biggest problem I have with the Statue of Liberty being a Weeping Angel is the previously established thing about "what holds the image of an Angel becomes an Angel". The Statue of Liberty is probably the single most photographed statue in the whole world. So why isn't Earth overrun by Weeping Angels as a result?

[StrangeDevice]

with the Time Lords (for all intents and purposes) gone

Well, this would be one of those foundational problems with the entire nuwho experiment; having no one in the team who understands why this is a contradiction in terms.

It's been done at least twice, once in NuWho and once in the EDAs over the millennium. The former examines the personal cost it has towards the Doctor and the latter explores what further reaching consequences it has for the cosmos in general.

That second (relative to Gallifrey) conflict involving the Daleks seemed a great deal more conventional towards the end, like how in Genesis of the Daleks, the Thals and the Kaleds had been fighting their war for so long that they regressed back from laser guns to conventional firearms. They went from the kind of temporal warfare that would have made Faction Paradox blush to fighting with their civilisations' equivalent of Zulu assegai. Consequently, when the planet was annihilated, it's implied to be something like what we saw in The End of the World -- a fireball. Also, that it's happened so long ago that word has spread to places like the Forests of Cheem.

And then The Day of the Doctor came and mucked that all up by retroactively sticking Gallifrey in a pocket universe...

[Dindu]

The biggest problem

Seriously, THAT is the biggest issue you have?

The first rule of Angels club is they cannot move if they are observed.

No one in the entirety of Manhattan observed the Statue of Freakin Liberty hop off her pedestal, wade through Hudson Bay and scurry through the streets, stopping to glare at a chap on a roof? No one heard that? saw that? Literally not a single person? Not even a rat or a seagull?

Yes, I know they can move very, very quickly, but it isn't instant. At the maximum observed speed (~20mph) of an Angel it's about a twenty minute journey from the island to the south side of CP.

They cannot fly, so even if you were to allow the Angel of Liberty itself to move even quicker (which is possible but involves debates about acceleration rates, implied motive forces, facts not in evidence and usually boils down to a discussion about the plasmification of air and when was the last time you saw an actual galvanised bucket), crossing the bay would displace billions of tons of water, at VERY high velocity. D'you think that might cause someone to take notice?

C'mon, dude,

[CrypticMirror]

The biggest problem

Seriously, THAT is the biggest issue you have?

The first rule of Angels club is they cannot move if they are observed.

No one in the entirety of Manhattan observed the Statue of Freakin Liberty hop off her pedestal, wade through Hudson Bay and scurry through the streets, stopping to glare at a chap on a roof? No one heard that? saw that? Literally not a single person? Not even a rat or a seagull?

Yes, I know they can move very, very quickly, but it isn't instant. At the maximum observed speed (~20mph) of an Angel it's about a twenty minute journey from the island to the south side of CP.

They cannot fly, so even if you were to allow the Angel of Liberty itself to move even quicker (which is possible but involves debates about acceleration rates, implied motive forces, facts not in evidence and usually boils down to a discussion about the plasmification of air and when was the last time you saw an actual galvanised bucket), crossing the bay would displace billions of tons of water, at VERY high velocity. D'you think that might cause someone to take notice?

C'mon, dude,

That is New York for you.

[Crowley]

The biggest problem

Seriously, THAT is the biggest issue you have?

Well, yes. If you apply the regular laws of physics, "Blink" quickly falls apart too. Why isn't there a rush of air when a Weeping Angel pounces towards a victim? Why isn't there a huge BUMBUMBUMBUM sound when a half-ton statue runs on a wood floor? But the rule that you shouldn't have pictures of Weeping Angels is something that was significant to story, and now it's ignored.

[Dindu]

Ah, the old adege; never go to physics with an engineer when trivia is on the line.

Tl;DR Whatever you find compelling, that's your thing, man, fair play to ya.

Why isn't there a rush of air when a Weeping Angel pounces towards a victim?
Why isn't there a rush of air when a bicycle rolls past at 20mph?
Air displacement is a function of area and velocity. We know both.
Air displaces almost entirely to the side. Angel attacks are filmed POV, so, the small amount of air displaced is away from the camera.

Why isn't there a huge BUMBUMBUMBUM sound when a half-ton statue runs on a wood floor?
They're not statues or stone when they move. We have no idea what form they take when they do.

But also, the Angel in Blink was played by Elen Thomas, who's more or less 11st (154lb) so, as a statue she'd be more or less 400lb (That's 1/5th of a ton, btw (assuming an average RD of 2.6 roughly equivilant to limestone or marble)) and if we have a quick Google for 400lb, you find Kelly Gneitling.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/RUN+ ... VbvD0x.jpg

Who is also 400lb, a sumo wrestler, and marathon runner. So, you're kinda suggesting that when Mr Gneitling runs he makes a lot more noise than other people do. I can assure you that is not the case.