Areas where you'd respectfully disagree with Chuck

[clearspira]

so, criminals should never be put in jail?

If there are better ways to deal with them and their antisocial behaviour, then yes, they shouldn't be put into jail.

even terrorists and war criminals? even in places like Norway, criminals still loose their freedom. and in these kids shows, I just can't believe that absolutely everyone in the universe forgives these wrongdoers. where are the ponies who still hate Discord, for example?

since I hate the Karma Houdini trope so much but the shows I watch insist on using it, how am I supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

How did you get from ''antisocial behaviour'' to ''terrorism?''

Maybe I am alone here, but ''antisocial behaviour'' conjures up images in my mind of kids spray painting an underpass or sticking gum onto a bus seat, not hijacking aircraft and ploughing them into buildings.

[CrypticMirror]

, how am I supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

...........oh, so tempting.

someone else said that MLP leaves it impossible to imagine realistic consequences happening off screen, so, what am I supposed to do?

The show about pastel coloured, talking, magical ponies makes it hard for you to imagine something realistic?

Look, either learn to accept it or walk away from the show. Those are basically your choices. The show has adopted a moral position, and the show's position is that people should forgive and forget. Either you can accept that position, or you can walk away. I'm sure the show would prefer you forgive it and forget your anger, but that one is on you. Every show ever made is going to have stuff you like and stuff you do not like in it. When the stuff you do not like starts to outweigh the stuff you do, then you walk away and find another show.

[clearspira]

, how am I supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

...........oh, so tempting.

someone else said that MLP leaves it impossible to imagine realistic consequences happening off screen, so, what am I supposed to do?

The show about pastel coloured, talking, magical ponies makes it hard for you to imagine something realistic?

Look, either learn to accept it or walk away from the show. Those are basically your choices. The show has adopted a moral position, and the show's position is that people should forgive and forget. Either you can accept that position, or you can walk away. I'm sure the show would prefer you forgive it and forget your anger, but that one is on you. Every show ever made is going to have stuff you like and stuff you do not like in it. When the stuff you do not like starts to outweigh the stuff you do, then you walk away and find another show.

I hasten to add ''not all bronies act this way'' just as not all Trekkies speak Klingon; but I cannot help thinking that such overblown reactions to a children's cartoon about talking ponies is one of the reasons why Bronies are such figures of fun to normies (that and fully grown men who want to ''mount'' ponies that clearly have the personalities and voices of pre-teen girls but that is another story.) I can only imagine what this thread looks like to someone not as immersed in such sub-cultures as we are.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

so, criminals should never be put in jail?

If there are better ways to deal with them and their antisocial behaviour, then yes, they shouldn't be put into jail.

even terrorists and war criminals? even in places like Norway, criminals still loose their freedom. and in these kids shows, I just can't believe that absolutely everyone in the universe forgives these wrongdoers. where are the ponies who still hate Discord, for example?

since I hate the Karma Houdini trope so much but the shows I watch insist on using it, how am I supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

How did you get from ''antisocial behaviour'' to ''terrorism?''

Maybe I am alone here, but ''antisocial behaviour'' conjures up images in my mind of kids spray painting an underpass or sticking gum onto a bus seat, not hijacking aircraft and ploughing them into buildings.

most of the villains in MLP are terrorists or war criminals or some other type of serious criminal like an abusive cult leader or a slave trader, yet they always get let off the hook.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

, how am I supposed to enjoy anything anymore?

...........oh, so tempting.

someone else said that MLP leaves it impossible to imagine realistic consequences happening off screen, so, what am I supposed to do?

The show about pastel coloured, talking, magical ponies makes it hard for you to imagine something realistic?

Look, either learn to accept it or walk away from the show. Those are basically your choices. The show has adopted a moral position, and the show's position is that people should forgive and forget. Either you can accept that position, or you can walk away. I'm sure the show would prefer you forgive it and forget your anger, but that one is on you. Every show ever made is going to have stuff you like and stuff you do not like in it. When the stuff you do not like starts to outweigh the stuff you do, then you walk away and find another show.

it's a morality tale based show, it has to be compared to real life, otherwise, the morals it teaches are useless. and again, war crimes, terrorism, abusive cults, high treason and slave trading are not stuff you can just forgive and forget.

and again, it seems to be a problem in every kids show these days and I can't help but think MLP is the reason for this.

for example, The Lion Guard, like the movie it was based on, had characters act more realistically and the former at least, has actual politics in it. and wile it stopped happening in this one particular show, my beef was that Kion, who was supposed to be protecting the Pridelands, often nearly screwed it over with huge mistakes, yet, we only ever see Bunga punished when he did something stupid.

[CrypticMirror]

Dude, learn to let it go. I'm sorry that people are teaching the lesson not to be punitive like you'd like, but honestly, telling kids that forgiving and forgetting is way better. For example, you'd be a lot happier if you were able to forgive and forget over the things you didn't like in kiddies cartoons. If you can't, well, I forgive you. As for this conversation...

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Dude, learn to let it go. I'm sorry that people are teaching the lesson not to be punitive like you'd like, but honestly, telling kids that forgiving and forgetting is way better. For example, you'd be a lot happier if you were able to forgive and forget over the things you didn't like in kiddies cartoons. If you can't, well, I forgive you. As for this conversation...

the punitive method still has a place, even in places like Norway which has a justice system focused more on rehabilitation, the offender still loose their freedom. so, even for people who focus on rehabilitation, prison still plays a part.

and for more normal anti social behavior that kids exhibit, didn't your parents ever tell you something along the lines of "Sorry isn't gonna cut it?"

[Dragon Ball Fan]

Ah, hyperbole...

what exactly am I being hyperbolic about?

[TGLS]

Ah, hyperbole...

what exactly am I being hyperbolic about?

Your argument is built around the idea that if an eight-year-old watches a show with the message "Forgive and Forget" they're going to forgive mass murderers and just let them go free, because the show forgave someone who did really over the top things. You argue that the show should give a "Punish the Guilty" moral, so they won't feel compelled to let mass murderers go free.

In reality, the show gives the moral "Forgive and Forget" because an eight-year-old still has a developing sense of morality. When some kid on the playground swipes their toy, if you're going around giving them the message "Punish the Guilty", they may very well decide to deck the kid after they get it back, instead of forgiving and forgetting.

In other words, your whole mass murderer argument is:

[Deledrius]

As I have said before, Star Trek was designed to be ''the hopeful show''. Criminals in this universe can rehabilitate - they can start evil and then better themselves. And if the actual character execution of the Empress (I refuse to call her an emperor) was different from day 1 then maybe we could have had that. But I posit that the moment you introduce a crime as outrageous as cannibalism is the moment that you have just made a character redemption arc very hard to swallow.

I don't like Discovery, but in Star Trek we've seen the redemption of Space Goebbels and Space Himmler over on DS9, and came so very close to redeeming Space Hitler, not to mention Space Female Osama Bin Laden, plus they've given us Heroic Attila the Hun too. So, pretty much anybody can be redeemed if the writing is good enough. Do I think the writing will be good enough on Discovery? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha-Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......

I absolutely agree about the notion regarding redemption. There is a problem: so far, there is no redemption. This tyrant was saved by bad writing in the first place, then brought back into the show from a misguided idea to create a spin-off. Since then, the character has made no moves to have a redemption arc. Presumably they're saving it for her show (if that even is the intent). She began as a genocidal, power-hungry, cannibalistic tyrannical dictatorial autocrat and as far as we've seen she is still that character two years later, with the only difference is that she currently lacks the power to embody her previous persona and indulge in her terrible proclivities. The only "good" we've seen in her is a tendency to act in Burnham's interests on occasion, but always in ways that also elevate herself and her position of power. Starfleet was stupid enough to give her access to its top-secret intelligence, and if it weren't for the sudden plot-shift mid-season due to the production shakeup she was poised to oust Leland through subterfuge and blackmail. That's a declawed villain rising again to become a threat, and only CONTROL derailed it.

Now maybe I will enjoy the redemption story (if we get it) on the S31 show, but there are so many hurdles to overcome it's going to be a massive uphill battle to make the show work, and so far no one's written a single thing on Discovery that gives me hope they have a clue how to do it. And if they do pull it off, it doesn't change the fact that right now the character has not even started on that journey. She's a character without positive aspects who we've only seen be a cartoon villain, wearing the same face as a beloved good-guy character so people give her slack (and the audience loves the actress, so they are excited to see her star in a show no matter the content).

Deep Space Nine had the good sense to make its bad guys complicated, deep people.