The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[clearspira]

And you don't think Putin's a Russian nationalist retard with severe NATO paranoia?

I don't buy that for even a second. It's a narrative he uses to prop up his regime. He's a megalomaniac control-freak with a superiority complex. And the perfect example of the stereotypical russian troll.

Right. Every dictator or tyrant throughout history has needed ''The Other'' to bolster their position. Hitler had the Jews, the Crusaders had the Muslims, the Romans had the barbarians etc. Putin has NATO.

[CmdrKing]

Raised NATO unity & commitment to destruction of Russia to unprecedented levels

I dispute that NATO's goal is the destruction of Russia. NATO's goal is a defence of the treaty's area or countries. Destruction of Russia becomes a goal however, if Russia attacks NATO-territory. Otherwise nobody gave a rat's arse about Russia.

At the same time, this point is so true that it's hard to find words to describe what an utter disaster Putin has steered Russia into. NATO has been a treaty looking for a reason to exist ever since the Soviet Union's collapse. The recent arguement between Trump and NATO-countries was very exemplary of it. Every country agreed to spend a certain part of their GDP for the (common) defence and basically no european country met that goal even remotely and nobody but Trump cared. Anti-NATO-sentiments (substantially stoked with russian money, but that's besides the point) were at an all-time high and the "quiet quitting" of NATO was on the horizon. If he had waited just five or ten more years, NATO wouldn't have existed anymore and the delivery of military goods to Ukraine just would not have happened either.

Mm, I think this is roughly half true, in that I think the big players in NATO couldn’t give less of a shit about Russia until suddenly they started a land war in Europe, but the newer, smaller members had a… very different perspective on the possibility of renewed Russian imperialism, from both recent and historic experiences at the time.

In that light I do think NATO right now is vested in a weakened Russia, current events having reinforced that maybe the counties who shared borders with them had a point. They might even angling for a further dissolution of its various territories into their own states? But they also aren’t so eager for it as to risk actual consequences for doing so, hence the current level of sanctions and readiness being “high but could be higher”.

Though as previously discussed whenever it is Putin falls down an elevator shaft onto a pile of bullets, the most likely winner will be China who will clean house on taking over (to some degree) various Russian industries to jumpstart their economy.

[hammerofglass]

Though as previously discussed whenever it is Putin falls down an elevator shaft onto a pile of bullets, the most likely winner will be China who will clean house on taking over (to some degree) various Russian industries to jumpstart their economy.

I don't think they could afford to. Russia's industrial base has been do neglected it's going to take a massive investment to make it profitable and China's economy is actively collapsing at the moment.

[Madner Kami]

Elon Musk. War-profiteer. (by Thunderfoot)

Price-gouger. Liar. General piece of human refuse. Always need to be a bit careful with what Thunderfoot says, especially when it's outside his area of expertise, but there you go.

[clearspira]

Elon Musk. War-profiteer. (by Thunderfoot)

Price-gouger. Liar. General piece of human refuse. Always need to be a bit careful with what Thunderfoot says, especially when it's outside his area of expertise, but there you go.

Yeah, Thunderfoot is great when he actually sticks to science, if a little repetitive. How often do we need to hear about the hyperloop or the LED road?
But anything else? Yeesh. This guy who used to be in Sargon of Akkad's inner circle lest we forget.

Regarding what Musk actually said about Starlink though, I kind of agree with him. Why shouldn't he be financially compensated for what is actually an extremely expensive system? He's running a business not a charity. And lets not forget, Britain didn't pay off its war debt to the US until the 21st century. This is how it works. Nothing is for free. Zelensky is getting just a little bit too presumptive about what he's entitled to after all of the freebies for my liking.

[hammerofglass]

I see Musk backed down, although I'm guessing he still never gets another DoD contract. Can't do business with someone you can't rely on.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I see Musk backed down, although I'm guessing he still never gets another DoD contract. Can't do business with someone you can't rely on.

Both these parties budgets and operations are so hyperbolic that they just need to agree on lights at the end of tunnels.

[Madner Kami]

But anything else? Yeesh. This guy who used to be in Sargon of Akkad's inner circle lest we forget.

Having been in "Sargon's circle" is a badge of honour in your world? Did I get that right?

Regarding what Musk actually said about Starlink though, I kind of agree with him. Why shouldn't he be financially compensated for what is actually an extremely expensive system?

He is being compensated for the use. That was the point of the video I linked. Compensated to a degree no less, that just the involvement in Ukraine flushes in more money than the company makes with every other contract.

[clearspira]

But anything else? Yeesh. This guy who used to be in Sargon of Akkad's inner circle lest we forget.

Having been in "Sargon's circle" is a badge of honour in your world? Did I get that right?

Regarding what Musk actually said about Starlink though, I kind of agree with him. Why shouldn't he be financially compensated for what is actually an extremely expensive system?

He is being compensated for the use. That was the point of the video I linked. Compensated to a degree no less, that just the involvement in Ukraine flushes in more money than the company makes with every other contract.

You got that wrong. I was saying the man cannot be trusted when it comes to political opinions given his prior history of known associates.

[Frustration]

I don't agree with this "best deep-cover agent the CIA ever had" business.

It's not in our best interests for any country to be poor, miserable, in possession of dangerous levels of power, and vulnerable to propaganda about how others are responsible for their suffering. Consider how we treated Japan and Germany after WWII, and contrast that to how Germany was treated after WWI.

In the long term, Putin's actions make Russia much more dangerous to the world, even as they cripple Russia of today.