Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

[Ikiry0]

Is it really cannibalism to eat a human if you're a large animal that can assume human form?

[Yukaphile]

Eh, you get my point. All those monsters Nanoha beat were brainwashed and corrupted. Arf is the only one to retain full control over her faculties, and as I had said does not apologize when coming to our side. Once you're sentient and choose to kill that way, it's really crossing the line. Most animals kill to eat, but they don't know any better. Arf has shown she does not need all meat to survive, and is simply turning this into a very personal way to kill. There's also the serious issue of if it's a bluff or not, given how she does not try to do this to enemies in the future. But then, that may be character development, which could have been kickstarted by her apologizing - or just, you know, mentioning it at some point? "Remember how when I first appeared, I had wanted to eat my enemies, and now I won't?" That sorta thing. Give the dub credit, it tried to change this, but then also changed the line it makes sense with, so call that a wash. Again, I don't hate MGLN, but I take serious issue with its presentation. I'm wondering if the movie really is a better alternative in terms of canon, but then, it really diminishes Yuuno's role from all I hear. I am NOT a fan of that. He already gets enough abuse. I mean, those lesbian purists who think Fate and Nanoha are meant for each other? It's always so fun to remind them, where was Fate when all this was taking place? Standing beside her familiar and doing nothing, while it was the hated Yuuno who threw up a barrier that, if she was serious, kept Nanoha living. They know nothing. Bunch of brats.

[Kendrakirai]

She was being manipulated by Precia, remember. And seemed to take specific care not to kill Nanoha. So yeah, I'm calling bullshit.

Yeah, even my best friend doesn't like Chrono, lol.

"Help out and protect" your master does not equate to cannibalism.

I'm not saying skip the first part, mind you. Just I take issues with its presentation.

The manipulation and coercion is one of the big reasons why she *wasn’t* ultimately tried, as well as the fact she helped prevent what she was being manipulated into doing. Again, I’m more on the side of it being a ‘this COULD happen....if my mom weren’t nuttier than a squirrel’s breakfast and you’re found to have actually been a willing participant in all this.’ Sort of deal than an actual threat.

But even if it was, being an accomplice in the potential destruction of multiple highly populated worlds is still a pretty good reason to lock her up, should it have come to it. Heck, the fact she’d ever be able to get out at all is a good sign for the TSAB? Most places would see conspiracy to commit omnicide as a good reason to make her not see her tenth birthday, or never let her out at all, even *with* the mountain of extenuating circumstances.

Oh, and as for Arf, Nanoha herself seems to treat Arf and later Hayate’s wolf familiar more as an animal than a person - it’s also why she’s absolutely fine with changing in front of
Yuuno; despite his human intelligence and ability to speak, she thought of him as just a ferret. Even after she finds out that *isn’t* his natural form she doesn’t mention at all that he saw her naked.

So, to Nanoha, Arf is an animal, and thus shouldn’t be held to human standards.

(Also, Arf was in full on “If I can’t kill Precia for hurting my master, I’ll just have to kill anyone ELSE who hurts her!” Mode.)

(Oh, and also also, it gets established in later shows, well before the movie was made, that magical damage doesn’t do lasting physical harm. While Arf could have ripped Nanoha’s throat out, magic just *hurts* rather than kills, and the Barrier Jackets are themselves pretty decent protection against both magical and physical damage.)

[Fourth Dimension]

Exactly. Don't behave their age. Nanoha doesn't look afraid by Arf's murder threat (when that's like one of childhood's greatest fears, probably a primal instinctive holdover from our tribal days), and the TSAB wants to lock up kids under ten for hundreds of years. It's horrifying. I can see why in some material like BetrayerS they painted the TSAB as a corrupt force. I always felt that way.

So is the movie more canon? I do know in the movie, Yuuno was shoved to the side. The poor bastard. Me and my friend are planning a MEGA-CROSSOVER, shoving every series we know of into it, and one thing we intend to do is show off the fandom's dream of NanoFate as a couple, and they are EVIL. They kidnapped their world's Yuuno and tortured him, and the protagonist Fate and Nanoha find him, and unleash hell on them.

As I said, hundreds of years is pretty much TOS wierdness. Come next season, person who actually broke many laws and willingly participated (with some very important liberating considerations) in an operation that might have brought about severing of connections between worlds and massive damage got let out of house arrest on promise to do good. Everything we see since then is that they tend towards being understanding towards the situation which led to some incident.

TBH, by now movies are their own timeline so they are cannon to themselves. Though they are sadly the place where any more stories will be happening too in unlikely event we get more Nanoha.
And that portrayal of Nanoha and Fate just being evil for no reason wouldn't really make sense for them at all. ESPECIALLY Nanoha. What little I heard of BetrayerS never made sense to me given that they made NANOHA the one to go "evil". You might make Fate do some questionable things if she felt it's necessary or her mommy issues are played well or Hayate if you place her well in an Well Intentioned Extreemist position, but not really Nanoha.

But it's your fic. You can do whatever you want in your own fic.

[Yukaphile]

+Kendrakirai Gonna have to call bullshit there. Arf was made human, so has intelligence and self-awareness, unlike other animals. Even in Season 1 she has been shown to have the same morals we do. And venting your frustrations off an innocent person who personally has done nothing to you is what some of the worst monsters in human history have done. I think it's ultimately the ambiguity which bothers me. We really don't know if it's a bluff or not, given it's seemingly dropped by those in charge, and given what a particularly gruesome way it is to kill, this is very short-sighed. I'd expect something past chalking it up to early installment weirdness. Hell, IIRC, not the even the movies follow through upon this. Why do you think I have already written up two fanfics to this scene? Past being pure fantasy, it's to get people to remember this. Doubtful those in charge will ever address it, but is is something that needs to be remembered. Same way Vegeta butchered whole planets, even if it was under Frieza's orders.

+Fourth Dimension It's an alternate timeline where things go differently, to shove what the lesbian purists want with NanoFate into their faces. And to show how the real Nanoha and Fate would react. As to TSAB corruption, that's kind of the direction we're going. Btw, other organizations will be showing up later in the fic, not just them. The Federation, the New Republic, Green Lanterns, and so much more.

[Yukaphile]

That said, Nanoha is probably my FAVORITE magical girl in all of anime. More than Madoka, more than Sailor Moon, whether she's a kid or an adult, in TOS, or A's, or StrikerS I love me some Nanoha! She is so great.

Hell, one of my favorite crossover ships, when excluding Fate/Stay Night and Elfen Lied, is Teen Gohan and Nanoha!

[Kendrakirai]

+Kendrakirai Gonna have to call bullshit there. Arf was made human, so has intelligence and self-awareness, unlike other animals. Even in Season 1 she has been shown to have the same morals we do. And venting your frustrations off an innocent person who personally has done nothing to you is what some of the worst monsters in human history have done. I think it's ultimately the ambiguity which bothers me. We really don't know if it's a bluff or not, given it's seemingly dropped by those in charge, and given what a particularly gruesome way it is to kill, this is very short-sighed. I'd expect something past chalking it up to early installment weirdness. Hell, IIRC, not the even the movies follow through upon this. Why do you think I have already written up two fanfics to this scene? Past being pure fantasy, it's to get people to remember this. Doubtful those in charge will ever address it, but is is something that needs to be remembered. Same way Vegeta butchered whole planets, even if it was under Frieza's orders.

+Fourth Dimension It's an alternate timeline where things go differently, to shove what the lesbian purists want with NanoFate into their faces. And to show how the real Nanoha and Fate would react. As to TSAB corruption, that's kind of the direction we're going. Btw, other organizations will be showing up later in the fic, not just them. The Federation, the New Republic, Green Lanterns, and so much more.

I said *to Nanoha*. As in, the character. The one who was menaced. She seems to hold Arf - and all animals, even those with human intellect - to a different standard. Namely, those of animals. She doesn’t bat an eyelash over Arf or Yuuno eating pet food, but you can be pretty sure she’d try to make sure they get people food if they were human. She changed in front of Yuuno without a second thought because...he’s an animal. And who really cares if their pet is watching them change?

(Also, one can probably assume that Nanoha is just kind of hardcore in general, considering her family’s history, even if she had nothing to do with any of it directly. Once she gets over her initial shock, she’s far more concerned with keeping everybody *else* safe than herself. A trait which continues out past StrikerS. Even if she wasn’t raised or trained as a bodyguard, she still internalized it all.)

[Yukaphile]

True, but I'm talking out of universe, not from her perspective, you know? I cited Vegeta as an example, and give that series credit, which isn't always the best on consistency, his days as a planet pirate are well remembered even in DBS, which some fans feel is not true Dragon Ball. As I said, it's probably that ambiguity that bothers me most. Would she or would she not? Some think not, some think yes. I dunno... it's probably just a damn good thing even if yes, that it did not happen, because then there would literally be no future for Fate and her familiar, they'd be locked up for a very long time. And Fate hardly deserves that.

While we're on the subject of Fate's familiar, does anyone else think Arf in wolf form kind of looks like Mike from Hunter X Hunter? I think the animation studio was cribbing inspiration from Togashi, lol.

[Love Robin]

The bit about the Cat in a Zombie Apocalypse might be one of the funiest thing i've heard in years. My ribs hurt.

I'd watch a movie or series about a less-than-competent guy taking direction from his suddenly-talking cat in a ZA. And the "Chuck, shit's about to get real," line has to be within the first 10 minutes!!

[Yukaphile]

I dunno, I still take issue with some of the arguments people earlier presented. There is a world of difference being comfortable enough to get down to your skivvies in front of what you think is a beloved magical pet and just writing off a particularly gruesome and intimate way to murder you as part of that enemy creature's "morality" once you cross the line of sentience. Especially given how Nanoha is presented as wise beyond her years, like most of her family. Again, I think this can be blamed on early-installment weirdness, as others themselves have noted.