The Kreia/Darth Traya Discussion Thread

[Yukaphile]

If you have a problem with her, or love her to death as I do, then this is the place to discuss it. And if you do hate her, fine. That's your right to feel that way. But I detest people lying and spreading misinformation about her. Like how one guy a few weeks ago posted that she claimed the Force is not alive or something like that, when in the game itself she confirms all life is touched by the Force. Here's the transcript I wrote down to prove it.

JEREC TANO: Do you know anything about the Sith who pursue us?
KREIA: [Influence: Success] I know of them, yes... and how much like beasts they had become.
KREIA: Combined, united against the Jedi, they command legions of Sith. But above these legions, there are three who must be stopped - as long as any one of them lives, then we - and all life are doomed.
KREIA: One bathes in pain, feeds on it for sustenance. The other has ceased being a living being, so consumed by hunger than he has forgotten his own flesh.
KREIA: And the last is a creature of betrayals, for without such things, there is no hope.
JEREC TANO: The one who bathes in pain - Sion.
KREIA: Yes... of pain, he has learned much. Of knowledge, of teaching, he knows nothing.
KREIA: Like the others, he was spawned by the horrors of the Mandalorian Wars. He exists solely to spread his pain to all Jedi, everywhere.
JEREC TANO: Who is the betrayer?
KREIA: Even now, she is difficult to see. She must remain hidden for now until the time is right - if not, then all our efforts will be for nothing.
KREIA: In this, you must trust me. If she is exposed too soon, then this war will be over before it has begun.
JEREC TANO: Is the one consumed by hunger Visas's master? I would know more of him.
KREIA: He... if he can truly be called a man any longer... is one of the dark lords that pursues you. I do not think he knows what you are, not yet.
KREIA: He spared the Miraluka, and that may have been the last shred of feeling that exists within him.
KREIA: Keep his slave close to you. I suspect there was a reason he spared her... and perhaps a reason that she survived when the rest of her people and the Jedi did not.
JEREC TANO: He is no longer a man?
KREIA: One cannot have power of that magnitude that her master possesses and still think and perceive the universe as we do, as most of us do.
KREIA: I had hoped that you would not have to confront him... but her presence here has changed all that. You will have to meet him in battle.
KREIA: You must be prepared to sacrifice the blinded one. Perhaps her death will buy you the time you need to deal with her master.
JEREC TANO: Perhaps I can convince her to sacrifice herself... that would be a twin victory, I think.
KREIA: If you have such power, then I would make use of it... there is no need to dirty your hands when you can convince another to drive a blade into their own heart.
JEREC TANO: And I thought I was cold.
KREIA: Oh, you have promise. But wait until you have more years fall upon you, and you will see what a shell you heart will become.
JEREC TANO: How did he destroy her homeworld?
KREIA: It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.
KREIA: It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand.
JEREC TANO: And he used it to kill an entire planet?
KREIA: Yes. And he fed upon its destruction - it will sustain him, for a time.
JEREC TANO: I don't understand how he hasn't conquered the galaxy with that kind of power.
KREIA: Because it is not something that can ever truly be controlled... and it leaves nothing to conquer in its wake.
KREIA: And it rules him, not the other way around. It has its own will, its own instincts.
JEREC TANO: How can anyone have that kind of power?
KREIA: Power? Do you think so?
KREIA: You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing.
KREIA: And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.
JEREC TANO: That kind of power is impossible.
KREIA: Nothing is impossible with the Force. It is an energy that flows through all living things.
KREIA: And like energy, it may be harnessed, channeled, and consumed at times. It may even be a substance that can burn and ignite.
KREIA: Do not think of his power as one would a weapon, or one of your warships of the Republic. It is terrible, but it is still a subtle thing.
KREIA: The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force... what he does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time.
KREIA: And that is why they - and their techniques - must be wiped out. No one again must experience and learn what her master did.
JEREC TANO: How are they able to drain the Force?
KREIA: As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used.
KREIA: Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.
JEREC TANO: But all life is touched by the Force.
KREIA: Then you understand how terrible such a power is. And why it must be ended.
KREIA: It is an empty road to the dark side, and by traveling it, the price is death before one's time.
KREIA: He is a breach in the Force, capable of consuming the lives of those around him. Sometimes the touch is slow, as it is with his crew.
JEREC TANO: So he feeds on Force-sensitives?
KREIA: It is not something he can direct or focus, much like hunger itself. He is more of a hole in the Force than a living thing.
KREIA: Force Sensitives and worlds rich in the Force draw him. The Miraluka world was one such place.
KREIA: That is why where the Jedi gather, Jedi will die. He will feel it, unless they mask their presence - but Katarr called out as a beacon to him, and he could not resist it.
KREIA: And he cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings... or the Jedi.
KREIA: And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well.
KREIA: There is no future in the empty galaxy he sees. And that is why he must be stopped, the breach must be sealed, before his power grows beyond what even we can hope to stop.

[CharlesPhipps]

My take on Kreia is that I think she works where Ulysses in Fallout doesn't because the game really allows you to approach her philosophy however you want. My LS Exile is a character who strongly believes in the Jedi Order, fully intends to rebuild it, is messianically devoted to the Force (despite being unable to feel it), and believes just because altruism isn't always something that has good result doesn't mean you shouldn't practice it.

I call him Jedi Jesus.

He and Traya didn't get along and her attempt to blame the Force for conflict in the galaxy comes off as VERY different with him than it would, say, someone cynically blaming the Jedi for their failings and the Force for being a god that empowers both sides of a conflict.

[FaxModem1]

My take on Kreia is that I think she works where Ulysses in Fallout doesn't because the game really allows you to approach her philosophy however you want. My LS Exile is a character who strongly believes in the Jedi Order, fully intends to rebuild it, is messianically devoted to the Force (despite being unable to feel it), and believes just because altruism isn't always something that has good result doesn't mean you shouldn't practice it.

I call him Jedi Jesus.

He and Traya didn't get along and her attempt to blame the Force for conflict in the galaxy comes off as VERY different with him than it would, say, someone cynically blaming the Jedi for their failings and the Force for being a god that empowers both sides of a conflict.

Were you the writer of the LP Archive of KOTOR 2?

Anyway, I think Kreia has some points about the force, the Jedi, and the Sith. But, she's pretty much an Objectivist, and I hate Objectivism with such a passion for it's blatant selfishness, and it's inability to work in real society, that I think she needs to reevaluate herself.

That said, the character is written brilliantly, and is great as both an untrustyworthy mentor and a very interesting antagonist.

[Madner Kami]

Were you the writer of the LP Archive of KOTOR 2?

The what now?

@Yuka: Would be nice to rename "Jerec Tano" to either "The Exile" (the generic name for the character) or "Meetra Surik" (the canonical name), given pretty much everyone named the character differently. It took me a while to realize who the second character in your transcript was -.-

[Yukaphile]

Scorchy's LP on the Something Awful forums.

Yeah, it was the Exile. >.<

[CharlesPhipps]

The Exile is canonically a woman.

And no, I didn't do that LP but I did read it and it amused me how similar we were.

[Yukaphile]

Ah, but Legends is not canon according to those idiots at Lucasfilm, don't you know?

[CharlesPhipps]

Ah, but Legends is not canon according to those idiots at Lucasfilm, don't you know?

You realize George Lucas said the EU was never canon to his movies, right? You can enjoy an alternate universe to a main one.

I like the Justice League Animated series and I like the comics.

[Yukaphile]

George Lucas also said he left that to other people, who had levels of canon to their works, that are now shot to hell with Disney's butting into someplace it never belonged just to make a quick buck.

[CharlesPhipps]

George Lucas also said he left that to other people, who had levels of canon to their works, that are now shot to hell with Disney's butting into someplace it never belonged just to make a quick buck.

The EU didn't exist as one thing until Kevin Jackson's Essential Chronology. Before then, they'd declared the Marvel comics noncanon.

Again, the new canon doesn't invalidate the old.

You can like both.