Yuuzhan Vong War Discussion

[Winter]

I'm gonna be up front, the Yuuzhan Vong War is a subject in Star Wars that I know little about. I didn't read much about the saga and from what I did read the whole story just felt sort of, off. It didn't feel like Star Wars and the Yuuzhan Vong themselves felt so different from anything else that was in the series up to that point that they were rather off putting to me.

But clearly it has it's fans, one of the original plans for season 6 and or 7 of The Clone Wars was to have a story arc that foreshadowed the arrival of the Yuuzhan Vong with a single warrior and a single scout ship but at the end of the episode the Jedi would have no real idea what they were up against.

So, given this it's clear that the Yuuzhan Vong had a following as you don't consider dedicating a whole story arc of three or more episodes to a alien race that most movie fans might never had heard of. I will say that the idea of the Republic and the Empire teaming up to fight this new enemy is a fascinating one and one that can lead to great stories.

But I want to know from those who actually read it what are you're thoughts on the Yuuzhan Vong War?

[Mecha82]

To me Yuuzhan Vong arc was what made me stop reading old EU back in day. Sure it wasn't as bad as something like Dark Apprentice but like you I do think that it didn't feel like Star Wars. And that's problem. I was already 40k fan back then so I was already familiar with what they were going for with Yuuzhan Vong so it wasn't new to me either and I did see that they did have feel of 40k race like Tyranids rather than anything that belongs to Star Wars universe.

Also they killed so many characters including 2 out 3 Solo kids, Chewie and Mara Jade. And with Solo kids they had before that one turn to dark side as result of his brother's death. So while I like Stackpole's X-Wing novels (his style actually fits those) I do think that NJO was mistake.

[Yukaphile]

And I liked Dark Apprentice. Why didn't you?

I'll keep saying it over and over again, that YOU are not the holy arbiter of what does and does not belong in this universe. Hell, if anything, it impresses me they were gonna bring the Vong back, but that they said they did not want beings "dead to the Force," it's probably for the best given the changes that would have had to mean.

[Mecha82]

Why you act so offended like I insulted your mother or something. I don't claim that it's nothing else than my opinion and besides you are not one to who determines that belongs and what doesn't belong to Star Wars universe either. I mean I know you have big ego and you think that everything revolves around you but that's not case.

[FaxModem1]

The big problem with the Yuuzhan Vong is that, narratively, they make Palpatine, Tarkin, Thrawn, etc., right. In the face of an external threat that the Jedi could not face, the Republic would not be ready for said threat. In this case, intergalactic invaders. It never would be either, due to all the corruption and ineffectiveness of the Old Republic, and how nothing would get done in facing such an inconceivable external threat, because of all the power plays and squabbling on the Senate floor. Witness how in the Vong books, the New Republic is so stymied by their own corruption that the Vong basically have an open pass to march right in and take over the place.

This is actually a problem with Star Wars EU, and now due to the Sequel trilogy, Star Wars in general. Namely, that the ideals being fought for, freedom, democracy, justice, etc., turn out to have weak legs, and fall apart due to a stiff wind brushing against them. It becomes a rather nihilistic franchise, and you have to wonder, was DJ right, and you should just let other people fight while you stay out of it and just make your own fortune, because a new fight will be right around the corner, and any sacrifices made will be made pointless in a few years anyway.

[AquaReggie]

The big problem with the Yuuzhan Vong is that, narratively, they make Palpatine, Tarkin, Thrawn, etc., right. In the face of an external threat that the Jedi could not face, the Republic would not be ready for said threat. In this case, intergalactic invaders. It never would be either, due to all the corruption and ineffectiveness of the Old Republic, and how nothing would get done in facing such an inconceivable external threat, because of all the power plays and squabbling on the Senate floor. Witness how in the Vong books, the New Republic is so stymied by their own corruption that the Vong basically have an open pass to march right in and take over the place.

This is actually a problem with Star Wars EU, and now due to the Sequel trilogy, Star Wars in general. Namely, that the ideals being fought for, freedom, democracy, justice, etc., turn out to have weak legs, and fall apart due to a stiff wind brushing against them.

Unfortunately I have to agree partially with this, and I'm speaking as someone who's read and enjoyed 6 or 7 of the NJO books (more or less out of order because... my brain is untidy I guess). It's one thing to have expectations of idyllic happily ever afters from your stories, where once the Big Bad is defeated, no other evil people will arise and nothing goes wrong for the protagonists again. Its another to be worn out by the implication that the exact same evil will just show up 10 years or 30 years later and murder tons of people while pissing on the protagonists happy ending. Looking at you, Dark Empire and Sequel Trilogy

Honestly, I think with some reworking, NJO could chart a middle ground, especially since the Vong are very much not just Empire v.7. Let's he galaxy was shown to have settled down a little into peaceful times (maybe remove some of the less popular of the Imperial Remnant factions and random Dark Jedi of the old EU to make peace more convincing). The Yuuzhan Vong attack, but people initially believe they're just another hostile species from the Outer Rim, nothing that hasn't been seen before. Alarmists are dismissed as naive. But, once the true scale of the Vong and their worldship fleet is known, the galaxy pulls together and begins gearing up for a war never before seen.

And for the record, the pervasiveness of the Peace Brigade was stupid. That's not Britain trying to appease Hitler when Nazi Germany was beginning its rise, that's the equivalent of being a Pole in 1939 and thinking that anything you say will stop the tanks from rolling in.

[Beastro]

The big problem with the Yuuzhan Vong is that, narratively, they make Palpatine, Tarkin, Thrawn, etc., right. In the face of an external threat that the Jedi could not face, the Republic would not be ready for said threat. In this case, intergalactic invaders. It never would be either, due to all the corruption and ineffectiveness of the Old Republic, and how nothing would get done in facing such an inconceivable external threat, because of all the power plays and squabbling on the Senate floor. Witness how in the Vong books, the New Republic is so stymied by their own corruption that the Vong basically have an open pass to march right in and take over the place.

This is actually a problem with Star Wars EU, and now due to the Sequel trilogy, Star Wars in general. Namely, that the ideals being fought for, freedom, democracy, justice, etc., turn out to have weak legs, and fall apart due to a stiff wind brushing against them. It becomes a rather nihilistic franchise, and you have to wonder, was DJ right, and you should just let other people fight while you stay out of it and just make your own fortune, because a new fight will be right around the corner, and any sacrifices made will be made pointless in a few years anyway.

The problem is the weird, over adherence to a few things established in the first movie that were kept when the scope couldn't allow for it.

In this case it's one of the big ones: The Republic being the perpetual damsel in distress who only seems to exist to be in danger of always collapsing.

[Wargriffin]

The Vong were designed to be Alien and as far removed from the the Empire as possible

I think the fact they take a little too much from the Dark Eldar is what pushes them over the top for some people.

Honestly the problem with the Vong wasn't the War itself cause the war is presented as Hell and while the Republic shatters it fights on. and is reborn as the GA 'unlike the NEU where they turn into a bunch of fucking losers the moment they win. Honestly the NR comes off alot better if you just fucking ignore the NEU cause the picture they paint is a Galaxy that wants to be dominated

I don't think the Vong Validate, Tarkin or Palpy 'especially cause they didn't do any of this for the GOOD of the Galaxy' The point of the Vong was to have vicious invader that would Test the NJO and New Republic to their limits.


No the problem was... The EU did not take a break, you didn't get the Bantam era of smaller adventures and threats to give the setting time to breath.

Instead the Vong war was followed by the Bug War 'Dark Nest' and then Jacen turned into a Sith 'Legacy of the force' and then fucking Cthulhu attacked 'Fate of the Jedi

all while trashing alot of the Character relationships cause DARKNESS = Critical Darling

[Rodan56]

My primary problem with the Yuuzhan Vong are that they exist to make the bad guys from the original films the true heroes. It's almost a sort of "Fascism Was Neccessary" angle that makes it feel more like Warhammer 40k than Star Wars as one person mentioned in this thread. Same issue with the Mirror Universe episodes of DS9 really, a suggestion that democracy and freedom are weak ideals in face of the unwashed barbarian hordes at the gates. We do realize Rome fell because it was a corrupted Militaristic state at that point, right? And that was just all their expansionist oppressive imperialist ambitions coming home to roost, right?

The problem with the old EU is this. The writers really really liked the bad guys too much. They liked them so much they bent over backwards to suddenly switch them around and make the heroes to justify keeping them around. So they gave them an evil alien horde to fight and prove to the stupid goody two shoes freedom lovers that they were always right and had been since the start. And now we have idiots online who act like the attack on the Death Star is a one to one comparisson to 9/11. Yes, because two civilian buildings in New York is the equivalent of a literal super weapon.

The Vong are the literal start of Imperial Apologism within the fandom. An attempt to make the Jedi impotent and the bad ass Space Nazis the true saviors of the galaxy. Think of it like this, Star Wars is based on a lot of pulp sci-fi novels from the 50s. Like Starship Troopers, stories about war and fighting aliens and all that stuff. However, Star Wars mixes that with older concepts, knights, chivalry, Samurai, Zen and Shaolin disciplines, that it altered the DNA of that primary conception into something wholy unique to itself. And because so many authors and writers and fans couldn't wrap their heads around how unique Star Wars as an entity is, born from so many sources and elements from years past, that they have tried to define it as something more familair and simple and direct.

The old EU was this, stuff every possible cliche square jawed badass normal raygun toter it could find into the narrative. This is from some one who kinda loves that ridiculous aesthetic mind you, so understand that's not a position of criticism. Those things are fine, but they alone aren't Star Wars, they are what inspired the franchise. By stripping the other elements away from Star Wars, you intentionally remove what makes it stand out as an evolution from those roots.

You make it less like itself and more like the dime a dozen stories it spawn from. You are regressing the series, de-evolving it into something that is more generic and palatable to the mainstream. That's not a bad thing in small doses, paying homage to the roots and all, but too much... and you get the Yuuzhan Vong. Space Orks immune to Space Wizards so it's up the badass looking Space Marines to save the day.

Look, I'm seeing a lot of criticism of the ST here and I'm not going to dismiss it, but there's one thing that isn't deniable. The sequels NEVER tried to claimt the Empire was just or good or preferable. If anything, it doubled down on the original intentions of what the Galactic Empire was, Space Nazis! It didn't give excuses to its villains or try to justify their position. They are flat out horrible regressive close minded fascists and they need to be stopped. You might see that as too black and white to stomach, but that's more Star Wars to me than "Space Orks vs Space Marines." Evil must be opposed, the light must banish the dark, that is what Star Wars in its grander scope has always meant to me. There are of course nuances there, nothing is ever absolute, not even the good guys, TLJ made that clear enough, but it has clearly defined heroes and villains.

[Wargriffin]

People over state the "The Vong proved the Empire Right" angle which is dismissed in Story... Palpy was gonna conqueror and oppress the galaxy regardless if Alien invaders were coming. Its just the angle the fandom that favors the villains latched onto