B5 - Voices of Authority

[G-Man]

I disagree that Musante is dumb or thinks Sheridan is. Her demeanor seems to indicate "yes, I know that this is B.S., but I am perfectly fine with it and if you know what is good for you, you will be too."

[Taurian Patriot]

The flaming stone head saying "Zog!" gives me Zardoz flashbacks nowadays. And to be fair to the term "climate change," it's also meant to address those people who say "Well, this winter was colder than last year's, so obviously global warming isn't real," unaware that an average overall increase in temperature causes a lot of wonkiness with weather patterns and doesn't apply everywhere evenly.

With the exception of technical or professional jargon, I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue over semantics except to justify or excuse themselves in some fashion - especially when they insist on defining what a "true [member of group I belong to]" is. Sometimes it's quite reasonable, but there's also the fact that few have the nerve to admit being bigoted, privileged, hypocritical, or whatever, and tweaking definitions is one of the easiest and most convenient to make sure we're never on the wrong side of an argument.

[A_Really_Big_Cat]

Is Chuck going to work on republishing Point of no Return for the purposes of this week's episodes? I wanted to watch it but it's stuck in Limbo.

[MyUserName]

I gotta say I disagree somewhat with Chucks rant on the effectiveness of rebranding on peoples thinking.

I agree that it can affect and control many, but if great minds discuss ideas, average minds events, and mediocre minds people, then the minds that process and discuss ideas are immune to rebranding, because people like that think in ideas so rebranding a thing has no effect on them because they see terms like white supremacy as racist rhetoric that it is rather than being overwhelmed by the social implications of the terms.

Otherwise, I genuinely like the episode. It has a light and silly feel but a lot of important things happen.

[PerrySimm]

Another reminder that B5 sets pretty high standards for this episode to be considered of middle quality. Even so, it's oddly skippable. Ms. Morden here is just another in a long line of Earthgov stooges whose plans on B5 mainly fall flat.

The Great Machine and First Ones stuff mainly pays off seeds planted earlier, rather than being super important going forward. Zack's character moments are also significant, but in a lot of ways, this is just another connecting episode.

[bz316]

OMFG, that Rick and Morty callback XD

Seriously though, one thing that always kind of threw me was how easy it was to manipulate these supposedly superior, vast life forms. Ivanova manages to shit-talk the Walkers of Sigma-957 into helping. Sheridan ends the war by yelling a speech at the Vorlons and Shadows, etc. It'd be like if humans stopped building a factory because a bunch of ants yelled "Yo Mama" jokes at the construction crew. Even if they somehow noticed, would you really give a rat's ass what an ant has to say?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I'd be pretty impressed by a talking ant, personally. At the very least if something I've regarded as a mere pest personally addressed me, I'd hesitate before stepping on it.

[MyUserName]

OMFG, that Rick and Morty callback XD

Seriously though, one thing that always kind of threw me was how easy it was to manipulate these supposedly superior, vast life forms. Ivanova manages to shit-talk the Walkers of Sigma-957 into helping. Sheridan ends the war by yelling a speech at the Vorlons and Shadows, etc. It'd be like if humans stopped building a factory because a bunch of ants yelled "Yo Mama" jokes at the construction crew. Even if they somehow noticed, would you really give a rat's ass what an ant has to say?

I don't think you really followed the series as it was always clear what the wars with the Shadows were really all about. Stracynski has said if he knew he'd be getting a fifth season, the shadow war wouldn't have been wrapped up so soon, but it would have ended the same way.

[ArchaonTheEverchosen]

OMFG, that Rick and Morty callback XD

Seriously though, one thing that always kind of threw me was how easy it was to manipulate these supposedly superior, vast life forms. Ivanova manages to shit-talk the Walkers of Sigma-957 into helping. Sheridan ends the war by yelling a speech at the Vorlons and Shadows, etc. It'd be like if humans stopped building a factory because a bunch of ants yelled "Yo Mama" jokes at the construction crew. Even if they somehow noticed, would you really give a rat's ass what an ant has to say?

I think the point is to show despite claiming superiority, these higher lifeforms are still no better than anyone else in term of morality and enlightenment since they are still plague by petty things. The only higher lifeform that actually act like it is Lorie.

[Rocketboy1313]

Rebranding works surprisingly well on the public.

It is the core concept in "1984" 's use of New Speech which is perhaps the best narrative illustration of how it works on a more mass scale.

It is too subtle for people to pick up on in the real world (most of the time) because at the core it is technically right and mostly uses benign synonyms. It is when time passes that the effect starts to make a substantial impact, as the tiny shifts in language snowball and everything becomes a sort of code (often referred to as "dog whistles" as the right people can hear it but others don't hear anything).

This is best exemplified by the "Southern Strategy"
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/
The late, legendarily brutal campaign consultant Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can win the vote of racists without sounding racist themselves:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “(N-word), (N-word), (N-word).” By 1968 you can’t say “(N-word)”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “(N-word), (N-word).”

Edited to use "(N-word)".