My Mixed Feelings on Phase 4 of the MCU

[Winter]

I have mixed feelings on Phase 4 so far. Not counting Eternals (because I have yet to watch yet though I do plan to) the films that the MCU have released so far have been good but don't seem to have quite the punch the earlier films did, I liked Shang Chi and the Ten Rings but it did feel a little over stuffed and was strangely hard to follow at times. Black Widow is a film I had been waiting years for and the film itself was so lackluster and it almost felt like the people making the film hated Natasha or something given how the filmmakers keep focusing on anyone BUT her. And while I have yet to see Eternals it's mixed reception doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

So, yeah, the films have been just okay which is kind of a let down which is weird because the Disney+ shows have honestly been REALLY good. WandaVision, The Falcon and the Winter Solider and Loki have all been huge hits with critics with all three shows getting tons of praise by viewers and critics alike.

I personally liked how Wanda's arc was handled in her show as it was a nice way to show how trauma and grief can drive one to make bad or even morally questionable choices and still be someone we want to see happy. Sam and Bucky are both dealing with the lose of their friend with one trying to figure out if he's truly worthy of being Steve's successor and the other dealing with his own bundle of issues. And Loki gives us an interesting look of the mind of the MCU's most popular villain. Even Marvel's What If? series has gotten tons of praise with many enjoying the show for just how it gives Zero F#(ks and does whatever it wants and all have done a lot with the fallout of Endgame.

Hence my mixed feelings on the current phase so far, the films don't feel as good as what came before but the shows are really enjoyable and are, IMO, a great continuation of the Infinity Arc.

[McAvoy]

I think the problem is name recognition at this point, as in bringing in new characters to replace Captain America and Iron Man. But at the same time, replacing the performances.

Also Endgame. It really did put an end to that whole long chapter.

I know there is still the Spider Man movie, Thor 4, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel. Among others. I think only Spider Man holds any hope to bring in the big bucks. Especially if the rumors are true. In having the other two previous Spider Man (Men) come in. That alone would make it super interesting.

[Winter]

I think the problem is name recognition at this point, as in bringing in new characters to replace Captain America and Iron Man. But at the same time, replacing the performances.

Also Endgame. It really did put an end to that whole long chapter.

I know there is still the Spider Man movie, Thor 4, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel. Among others. I think only Spider Man holds any hope to bring in the big bucks. Especially if the rumors are true. In having the other two previous Spider Man (Men) come in. That alone would make it super interesting.

Over a decade ago hardly anyone outside of comics really knew anything about Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk or the Guardians of the Galaxy. Today, they're all house hold names and people know a lot more about them because of the MCU's success. For a time the only Marvel characters anyone had any real interest in was Spider-Man, the Fantastic 4 and the X-Men but after the MCU there's more of a draw to anyone outside them.

I'm not worried about the future of the MCU because, as I said, Phase 4 has been both hit and miss but I'm still invested in the series. I'm still looking forward to GOTG3 and what James Gunn is going to take the series now that he's back. I want to know where they're going with the Multiverse Arc and how that can be used for the characters.

Like I said my feelings are mixed and even the stories I don't enjoy are not ones I hate or even dislike and still got SOMETHING out of them. And I'm willing to cut the studio a bit of slack because there's still a pandemic going on and it's affected the quality of everything. Even stories I've enjoy have all been clearly hindered by the pandemic so hopefully the MCU films will be back on track once everything is back to normal.

[McAvoy]

I think the problem is name recognition at this point, as in bringing in new characters to replace Captain America and Iron Man. But at the same time, replacing the performances.

Also Endgame. It really did put an end to that whole long chapter.

I know there is still the Spider Man movie, Thor 4, Guardians of the Galaxy, Captain Marvel. Among others. I think only Spider Man holds any hope to bring in the big bucks. Especially if the rumors are true. In having the other two previous Spider Man (Men) come in. That alone would make it super interesting.

Over a decade ago hardly anyone outside of comics really knew anything about Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Hulk or the Guardians of the Galaxy. Today, they're all house hold names and people know a lot more about them because of the MCU's success. For a time the only Marvel characters anyone had any real interest in was Spider-Man, the Fantastic 4 and the X-Men but after the MCU there's more of a draw to anyone outside them.

I'm not worried about the future of the MCU because, as I said, Phase 4 has been both hit and miss but I'm still invested in the series. I'm still looking forward to GOTG3 and what James Gunn is going to take the series now that he's back. I want to know where they're going with the Multiverse Arc and how that can be used for the characters.

Like I said my feelings are mixed and even the stories I don't enjoy are not ones I hate or even dislike and still got SOMETHING out of them. And I'm willing to cut the studio a bit of slack because there's still a pandemic going on and it's affected the quality of everything. Even stories I've enjoy have all been clearly hindered by the pandemic so hopefully the MCU films will be back on track once everything is back to normal.

I disagree. Iron Man was known not well known but known enough. Hulk was well known as much as Spider Man or Fantastic Four or X Men.

Thor was probably the biggest gamble even in the early years. I mean it's a character in the comics that speaks almost Shakespearean. And based on a real life mythologocal god that they have nothing in common outside the obvious. And the movie was good. Not great. Not OK. But good of good enough.

Guardians of the Galaxy was the biggest gamble due to literally no one knowing about them except for their comic book fans. They became a hit due to the comedy and script.

I feel Phase 4 is basically Phase 1 now but with much higher expectations and a lack of familiar characters.

Honestly, they should do a War Machine movie. Don Cheadle could carry a movie on his own. And it would be easy writing too. Ditch the Endgame armor though. Go back to the classic look.

[Winter]

I disagree. Iron Man was known not well known but known enough. Hulk was well known as much as Spider Man or Fantastic Four or X Men.

Thor was probably the biggest gamble even in the early years. I mean it's a character in the comics that speaks almost Shakespearean. And based on a real life mythologocal god that they have nothing in common outside the obvious. And the movie was good. Not great. Not OK. But good of good enough.

Guardians of the Galaxy was the biggest gamble due to literally no one knowing about them except for their comic book fans. They became a hit due to the comedy and script.

I feel Phase 4 is basically Phase 1 now but with much higher expectations and a lack of familiar characters.

Honestly, they should do a War Machine movie. Don Cheadle could carry a movie on his own. And it would be easy writing too. Ditch the Endgame armor though. Go back to the classic look.

Not sure I can agree on Iron Man as when the movie was being marketed many thought the film was going to fail and a big part of that was how so many didn't know anything about Iron Man and in fan circles the character had fallen out of popularity thanks to a number of bad stories, chief among them being Civil War. Hulk was well known but had largely fallen out of Popular Consensus and the first Hulk film had soured many's interest in the character, with some thinking that Hulk just couldn't work in a film.

Thor is weird because everyone likely knows of him thanks to him being a Norse God but few knew much about his comic book counterparts (DC has a Thor too). So, I can't agree as I feel Marvel was taking a huge risk with these characters as some may have heard of them but they weren't as well known as Marvel's original Big 3.

I completely agree that War Machine deserves a movie and, if anything, one is overdue.

[clearspira]

Phase 4 is the era of forced diversity not good plots.
Look at Eternals.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's far too early to tell imho. How well they do is going to depend on how much momentum they can get for Phase 4. And it's not very easy to tell considering the pandemic. Those are two things that people don't seem to understand after 10+ years of Marvel making its 15 billion dollars.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I don't think the characters were that obscure. They were not juicy for the studios, but the only people that didn't know about them worth talking about were the lower half of people that watch cartoons but don't read comics, like me. That isn't that big of an audience, but it's part of the test group that studios look at as a fanbase. Kind of like how commercial interests follow social media, even though it doesn't necessarily represent the whole population.

Comic book fans on the other hand know about all these characters. They obviously just were not the marketing base either since there's thousands of comic lines and it's a niche genre in itself that studios couldn't discern.

I did watch Iron Man when I could get early enough. I was a Jon Favreau fan. I think RDJ was able to fill the action comedy shoes that Schwarzenegger took off to become governor. And I know Iron Man by Black Sabbath. I didn't buy a ticket, but the money is there. The other three movies didn't do that good, but literally everybody got together and showed up for The Avengers. By that point, it's not about each film itself, but how well they're doing as world building... But they still paid attention given that Iron Man 2's reviews influenced production to give each franchise a creative director like Cruise was doing with Mission: impossible until they found what they wanted.

[hammerofglass]

Honestly everything so far feels like filler. Side stories, What-Ifs, stuff that what effect they will have on the MCU could have been handled in thirty seconds of exposition. Hell, a lot of the big overseas markets aren't even getting most of it. I think the multiverse stuff coming in the new Spiderman and Doctor Strange are going to set off the actual Phase 4.

[McAvoy]

Phase 4 is the era of forced diversity not good plots.
Look at Eternals.

Unless there is more than having two married men in the film then I don't see how it's forced.