Amazon to adapt Fallout

[Beastro]

I feel that prior to this bizarre cultural shift you mention there was a thing called a costume party.

There's a difference in how devoted the cosplay community is and you know it. Whether many treat it lightly, others live for it in a way that no one did/does with transient costume parties. Such parties nonetheless still possess a degree of the same thing we're talking about, but not to the degree that religious event participation played in people's lives before.

I feel like the assumption that the game needs defending is bizarre as "classic" Fallout is a game setting with the bridge master from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the option to be a porn star, and Robbie the Robot elements from the beginning. It was also made as a serial numbers filed off sequel to Wasteland that had Las Vegas overrun by robots and killer rabbits.

Much of what you reference is from Fallout 2 which is notorious for its pop culture references and deviation from the original setting thanks to Chris Avellone's writing. It was an issue that caused problems from the start and was regretted given that he both didn't treat the writing seriously and was rushed to get the sequel out. He was busy working on Planescape Torment and was pulled off of it alongside many others of that team to get FO2 done in 9 months.

FO2 became a more fun open game to play as a result than FO1 but was already going against the style and spirit of the setting. Bethesda seems to have taken one look at it and just exaggerated its qualities while ignoring the original.

FO2's jokes were completely at odds with the original settings axiom of making a setting based upon what people of the 1950s would think the future would be like overlayed with a modern jaded perspective of the 50s and its darker aspects. That is where the Robbie the Robot brainbots came from and other outlandish elements that fit that design ethos. They were not references, people of the 50s thought robots were like that and were helped by the fact that Robbie was repurposed for many different movies thus becoming iconic in a way no other robot has.

The only person Wasteland and Fallout had in common is Brian Fargo and Fargo's only contribution was recommending the name Fallout. FO1 was Tim Cain's baby and it was he who Josh Sawyer kept seeking advice from as he managed the development of New Vegas (Sawyer and Avellone would have handled Van Buren, the original FO3 being developed before Black Isle Studios went under).

You will note the distinct difference in tone NV has compared to FO2 and 3. It is more sedate in a bleak way as it was trying to recapture the essence of FO1. Whatever jokes and such it kept they were largely restricted to being setting appropriate for a game set around a future Las Vegas. Do note too that the antagonists followed suit: Caesar is much like the Master, seeking an ideal solution to Mankind's problems and has a noble desire even if they're fucking bastards. FO2 and 3 are about the US and the Old World's trying mentality coming back and restore itself, something that was a nice break for an antagonist in FO2 but was simply repeated despite FO2 nicely resolving them by their end.

I have talked about how JJ Abrams is like Todd Howard and FO3 shows it best. Bethesda did to Fallout what would later be done to Star Wars: Ignore the plot points and their resolutions in previous iterations of a series and just resurrect old, defeated antagonists that are now powerful again just 'cus without good reason to play it safe. The Enclave of FO3 was the New Order done years before our current era of movie stagnation.

[CharlesPhipps]

Fallout 2 was superior in every way to the original Fallout. The idea it was some mystical transformative video game without its own wackiness with the local mob boss, Don Gizmo, David Warner's hammy evil cultist radiation church, and the Master itself as a three headed cyborg nutjob with voice modulator is a bit much.

Then again, I LIKE all three games. I don't see the need to put down Fallout 3, 2, or 1.

The silliness doesn't detract from the setting but it is silly.

[Nealithi]

Personally I liked the five of them. But each for a different reason.
1, 2, and NV actually felt like you had towns. Places with people in them with different thoughts. I had to play the original three times to get the water chip and save the Vault. The second felt like such a great follow up. I hate that the car would run out of power. I think I spent a month trying to find a way to refuel it.
I did not get 3 or NV when they were new and they are very buggy on my computer now. I liked how in 3 people thought they were doing the 'right' thing at every step. Sure the super mutants and the Talon company were bad. But they were more a device than a 'people'.
NV had soo many factions. And the settlements felt like settlements. Good Springs had farming and water enough to handle themselves. Homes and the local watering hole. And that was but one settlement.

4 first off had better graphics so I felt less distracted by the color wash of 3 & NV. The ruins layouts for Concord, Lexington, and Boston were great. I am walking through a city and there are multiple ways to get around. Heck going over land I could approach from various directions. It felt like you had more choice.


Now one question. If Todd Howard does recycle elements just because. Does that mean the Institute is the Enclave with a fresh coat of paint?

[Beastro]

Fallout 2 was superior in every way to the original Fallout. The idea it was some mystical transformative video game without its own wackiness with the local mob boss, Don Gizmo, David Warner's hammy evil cultist radiation church, and the Master itself as a three headed cyborg nutjob with voice modulator is a bit much.

Then again, I LIKE all three games. I don't see the need to put down Fallout 3, 2, or 1.

The silliness doesn't detract from the setting but it is silly.

Not story and character wise.

To use the parlance of the forum I was on, FO1 is for "storyfags"and FO2 is for "gameplayfags". FO2 had a lot of fun things to do and wasn't restricted by a time limit or was railroaded like FO1 but it lacked a compelling story. The first does, especially with how the antagonist develops. Simply put, the Enclave are good as follow up antagonists but don't have the same interesting motivations as the Master's Army. They could have, but they were kept rather bland besides Horrigan. If only more had been done with the President.

"Well, we're gonna wipe out all life on the planet and repopulate and, no, no, you're not going to change my mind!" isn't as good as an idealistic blob antagonist who is convinced turning people into monsters will save mankind from itself which still nonetheless possesses a conscience when the ramifications of his plans are revealed to him.

[CharlesPhipps]

Not story and character wise.

To use the parlance of the forum I was on, FO1 is for "storyfags"and FO2 is for "gameplayfags". FO2 had a lot of fun things to do and wasn't restricted by a time limit or was railroaded like FO1 but it lacked a compelling story. The first does, especially with how the antagonist develops. Simply put, the Enclave are good as follow up antagonists but don't have the same interesting motivations as the Master's Army. They could have, but they were kept rather bland besides Horrigan. If only more had been done with the President.

"Well, we're gonna wipe out all life on the planet and repopulate and, no, no, you're not going to change my mind!" isn't as good as an idealistic blob antagonist who is convinced turning people into monsters will save mankind from itself which still nonetheless possesses a conscience when the ramifications of his plans are revealed to him.

Moral ambiguity is sometimes confused with depth. I feel like the Enclave's biggest appeal is not the fact the American Nazis aren't redeemable or reasonable but the parody of nationalism as well as the slow budding realization how utterly RIDICULOUS their pretensions of being an American Empire were (and the fact their base is a fucking oil rig). That's just me, though.

[Beastro]

Not story and character wise.

To use the parlance of the forum I was on, FO1 is for "storyfags"and FO2 is for "gameplayfags". FO2 had a lot of fun things to do and wasn't restricted by a time limit or was railroaded like FO1 but it lacked a compelling story. The first does, especially with how the antagonist develops. Simply put, the Enclave are good as follow up antagonists but don't have the same interesting motivations as the Master's Army. They could have, but they were kept rather bland besides Horrigan. If only more had been done with the President.

"Well, we're gonna wipe out all life on the planet and repopulate and, no, no, you're not going to change my mind!" isn't as good as an idealistic blob antagonist who is convinced turning people into monsters will save mankind from itself which still nonetheless possesses a conscience when the ramifications of his plans are revealed to him.

Moral ambiguity is sometimes confused with depth. I feel like the Enclave's biggest appeal is not the fact the American Nazis aren't redeemable or reasonable but the parody of nationalism as well as the slow budding realization how utterly RIDICULOUS their pretensions of being an American Empire were (and the fact their base is a fucking oil rig). That's just me, though.

If that was the intention then it wasn't properly shown. The best example of that in Fallout is Caesar's Legion and his hope that his marauding rape gang would suddenly because civilized.

What you say could have been done had Dick Richardson been more than a one-note figure and we got to see more to the Enclave in the spirit of Horrigan.

That plus their ambitions are supported by their tech and clear demonstration of ability to take on any near power. There's also the FEV magic to wiping everything mutated out and FEV has been shown to be capable of anything in the series. They don't need to do much if they kill everyone else off.

[CharlesPhipps]

If that was the intention then it wasn't properly shown. The best example of that in Fallout is Caesar's Legion and his hope that his marauding rape gang would suddenly because civilized.

What you say could have been done had Dick Richardson been more than a one-note figure and we got to see more to the Enclave in the spirit of Horrigan..

One of the interesting things to note is that Fallout 2 suffers a bit from "It was his Sled" syndrome. Every Fallout fan knows who the Enclave is now and that they're the remnants of the United States government's inner circle with advanced technology and weapons far in excess even of the Brotherhood of Steel.

HOWEVER, the funny thing is that the Enclave's identity was actually meant to be a surprise in the original game way back in 1998. The Enclave is kept deliberately vague and you only encounter mysterious power-armor wearing individuals sporadically from when they massacre a Vault in the teaser to killing people in the middle of the desert to when they kill all the Sentient Death Claws.

Surprising as it may seem, meeting Dick Ricardson and realizing you're fighting the United States government (or some fascimile thereof) was actually meant to be the "Luke, I am your father" moment of the game. It was still an uncynical enough Pre-War on Terror America that the US being the BAD GUYS and their plan to rebuild America was actually surprising satire.

That plus their ambitions are supported by their tech and clear demonstration of ability to take on any near power. There's also the FEV magic to wiping everything mutated out and FEV has been shown to be capable of anything in the series. They don't need to do much if they kill everyone else off

Well, their plan is insane.

The Enclave CAN wipe out all of America and the rest of the world's population, it's not an issue of it working or not. It's the fact it's such an utterly pointless and evil enterprise that will reduce the population of the recovering post-apocalyptic world from millions to however many thousand compromise the people living on the Enclave Oil Rig. Let's be generous and say a few thousand.

This isn't Fallout 3's Capital Wasteland. The Super-Mutants and other existential threats to humanity have been made peace with (The Super Mutants even do radioactive mining while the Death Claws are now friendly) or have been pacified. The human race is well on its way to recovery. Whatever "mutation" the Enclave is worried about is clearly so insignificant that no one else has even noticed it save maybe Vault City.

The Enclave is planning a completely stupid unnecessary genocide (not that "necessary genocide" makes any sense outside of dealing with Daleks--and even then) just because. They're not motivated by practicality and could maybe take over NCR if they wanted to--they're motivated by a deranged racial supremacist ideology of their own tiny tribe.

[clearspira]

We've already had a Fallout film... it was called The Book of Eli.
Good film, nonsensical twist ending.