Dystopian Science Fiction only reinforces the real world Status Quo

[Frustration]

I favor almost complete rights to freedom of speech. Unless the speech itself is harmful - as with the thankfully hypothetical Langford basilisks, or certain computer viruses - it ought to be permitted. People getting offended isn't a 'harm'.

[clearspira]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

I honestly don't see how you can write that out and not have an "are we the baddies" moment. So mad about absolutely nothing.

"Oh no I'm supposed to treat people different from me with a baseline of respect, I'm being victimized by them existing."

You read only what you wanted to read and nothing else. What is your opinion on being fired for not using the correct pronouns? Come on. Lets have it. Lets hear you justify it.

[clearspira]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

So you're repeating the right wing talking point that drag queen story time is somehow grooming children, and you claim to be okay with trans people as long as they don't draw attention to being trans in any way shape or form. So what if some trans men want to give birth? How does that affect you? You seem to be offended by anything that threatens your binary notions of gender.

I think you feel the need to justify your centrism so you twist "trans people want to be accepted" into "trans rights have gone TOO FAR!" to keep the Both Sides Are Bad narrative going.

Nope. Never said that drag queens are pedos. That's what you hope i'm saying.

I want to know though why they want to tell stories to kids. Come now, dude. Answer me. Why the big scramble for it all of the sudden? See... I smell indoctrination. Get em' young is how every religion and ideology functions because kids are impressionable. And if there is one thing that will piss off parents who might otherwise have left you alone is you going after their kids.

[clearspira]

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!''

Dude....

Rearrange your own sentence and it becomes, "I only accept X people in a narrow definition of them being invisible and not drawing attention to their differences."

But that's not what I said though. And you can rearrange it as much as you like. I said that she makes transpeople look like they are nothing but attention-seekers.

[hammerofglass]

You read only what you wanted to read and nothing else. What is your opinion on being fired for not using the correct pronouns? Come on. Lets have it. Lets hear you justify it.

It's exactly the same as me calling you (or just some cis guy if you aren't one) "she" insistently no matter what you say about it. It's targeted harassment, it's creating a hostile work environment, and it's simple bullying. Completely indefensible way to treat someone morally (which brings their general trustworthiness and judgement into question), opens the employer up for litigation legally. Of course they get fired for it.

Same for only referring to you by a name that isn't yours and you hate but I decided is your 'real' name no matter that you asked me to stop.

Your turn: how could you possibly justify keeping someone like that on the payroll?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

So you're repeating the right wing talking point that drag queen story time is somehow grooming children, and you claim to be okay with trans people as long as they don't draw attention to being trans in any way shape or form. So what if some trans men want to give birth? How does that affect you? You seem to be offended by anything that threatens your binary notions of gender.

I think you feel the need to justify your centrism so you twist "trans people want to be accepted" into "trans rights have gone TOO FAR!" to keep the Both Sides Are Bad narrative going.

Nope. Never said that drag queens are pedos. That's what you hope i'm saying.

I want to know though why they want to tell stories to kids. Come now, dude. Answer me. Why the big scramble for it all of the sudden? See... I smell indoctrination. Get em' young is how every religion and ideology functions because kids are impressionable. And if there is one thing that will piss off parents who might otherwise have left you alone is you going after their kids.

Being trans is not a religion.
"Going after their kids" is making it into something sinister.
It's literally just drag queens reading stories to kids, because reading stories to kids is something good. What's your yiffing problem?

[Madner Kami]

Being trans is not a religion.
"Going after their kids" is making it into something sinister.
It's literally just drag queens reading stories to kids, because reading stories to kids is something good. What's your yiffing problem?

He doesn't want his only son to become a drag queen, because a drag queen read a story to his precious. I mean, you could argue that it kinda depends on the story being told and that parents are the only ones who should decide how their kids are educated, I guess (which I take umbrage with, because raising kids is a group-effort, as kids solely being raised by their parents usually doesn't lead to desirable results quite often).
Though how you get from there to wanting to supress people in drag or transpeople in general, is a step I am not quite clear upon. But then again, I am a person who got vilified and despised, just because I dared to not cut my hair short just 25ish years ago, so I might not be qualified to understand that higher logic.

[KuudereKun]

That's a very theoretical notion of a non-existent thing, if you ask me. Outside of conservative right leaning people, you're not going to find a lot of centrists who'd have a problem with treating trans-people as people.

I think that until recently, trans rights as a need to be protected issue was almost nonexistent on the political spectrum.

I think it's a far more recent thing than gay rights. This is just me, but trans rights seems to be a very recent thing. Like a dude being a chick was just part of the gay community being 'extra' at times.

Don't get me wrong I am all for anyone being comfortable in their own body. Means nothing to me personally. I may not understand it but I will respect it.

The weird part is that trans rights were kind of quietly getting where they need to be in the background a decade ago. Then the far right fear mongers realized they lost the culture war on gay marriage and turned their attention to a smaller weaker minority to keep the grift rolling.

The anti-drag thing that popped up like a year and a half ago and they immediately went all "we have always been at war with Oceana" about it, that I still have no clue what it's about. Maybe they just literally don't know the difference.

The other thing that happened is that people like Dylan Mulvaney ruined it for you. Because people like her changed the landscape from ''transpeople are just like you and me and just want to fit in'' to ''look at me, look at me, i'm trans!'' Transmen that get pregnant are the same. Its very hard to convince people that a woman wants to be a man when they are doing something that only women can do. It comes off as attention-seeking - especially when they appear on front of some magazine.

The assault on language is another. Discourse has gone from ''please call me by my preferred pronouns'' to ''you will literally lose your livelihood if you don't.''

You're right. Society was getting to where it needed to be a decade ago. And guess what? The Left damaged it just as much as the Right. To deny that is to be just as closed-minded as our friend above.

And regarding drag. People only started to care when they insisted on reading stories to their kids and in some cases even putting make-up on their sons.

I honestly don't see how you can write that out and not have an "are we the baddies" moment. So mad about absolutely nothing.

"Oh no I'm supposed to treat people different from me with a baseline of respect, I'm being victimized by them existing."

You read only what you wanted to read and nothing else. What is your opinion on being fired for not using the correct pronouns? Come on. Lets have it. Lets hear you justify it.

No one is being Fire for using the wrong Pronouns, that's a delusion Jordan Peterson made up.

[CharlesPhipps]

I favor almost complete rights to freedom of speech. Unless the speech itself is harmful - as with the thankfully hypothetical Langford basilisks, or certain computer viruses - it ought to be permitted. People getting offended isn't a 'harm'.

Freedom to say is different from freedom from consequence.

The complete right to freedom of speech comes with the caveat that quite a lot of it is used to incite violence and oppression against various groups. Let's just stick with hate speech as an example. Saying that someone is a piece of shit is very different from saying, "Joe Johnson is a pedophile. He regularly rapes the children in his basement. We should go kill that guy before he rapes any more children." Especially if it's a part of a larger campaign to label people like Joe (jew, gay, trans, whatever) as monsters to get a lynch mob going.

Same principle applies to Lisa who just wants to Facebook post but her ex-boyfriend, Todd, constantly shows up on her feed calling her a whore, needing to be assaulted, and other disgusting vile things. A way to allow Lisa to go about her day without having to deal with this asshole is a guarantee of HER freedom to live.

Doxxing is not hurt feelings, it's stalking and abuse.

"The right to swing my fist ends at the other person's nose" was something the Founding Fathers (assholes but smart assholes) noted.

A major thing we have to deal with is also the fact that plenty of people who advocate for absolute free speech are often insincere in their activities and this need to be noted. Take for instance the politicians who are FURIOUS at the idea of Twitter banning certain politicians for hate speech. They claim that free speech should allow them to do whatever they want--but Twitter is a private entity and should have the free speech to kick them out of their equivalent space. These same politicians also advocate for a war on wokeness even though they're a PUBLIC entity.

[CharlesPhipps]

No one is being Fire for using the wrong Pronouns, that's a delusion Jordan Peterson made up.

The double standard is something that can also be noted. I used to be kind of an idiot who believed people should be allowed to discriminate as long as people discriminate right back. The guy who won't serve, let's say mutants from the X-men because I was a dumbass and don't want to repeat my old beliefs (I was 16), because of religious reasons. Fine, why would you want to patronize that guy anyway.

Well, the people advocating his right to discriminate will still advocate against the right for someone to protest against them. As they advocate for his free speech, they attempt to throw out all the books talking about mutants.

The power imbalances and agendas need to be brought up in these things.

Or in the case of, "These guys will claim that people get fired for using the wrong pronouns will also advocate the right to fire people for being trans."