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Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:02 pm Isn't immigration big part of USA and whole belief that America is land of opportunities with so many people living there either being immigrants themselves or having been descended from family of immigrants? In that sense whole debate doesn't really make sense since lot of people wouldn't be able to live in USA if they or they family from some generation before them would had been denied that opportunity. Let me remind people that most people living in USA and that are American citizens have they roots some were else.

Nealithi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:30 pm

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:02 pm Isn't immigration big part of USA and whole belief that America is land of opportunities with so many people living there either being immigrants themselves or having been descended from family of immigrants? In that sense whole debate doesn't really make sense since lot of people wouldn't be able to live in USA if they or they family from some generation before them would had been denied that opportunity. Let me remind people that most people living in USA and that are American citizens have they roots some were else.

The only rebuttal I have, if that is even the correct term here. Is that not true of many places that they don't seem to ask that question? Like the pacific islands, Greenland, Iceland, and even England?

FlynnTaggart wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:16 pm I kinda see both sides of the debate. While I'm personally fine with immigration I do have a problem with illegal immigration while acknowledging that sometimes, maybe alot of times, the US immigration system can be hard to get through, legal immigrants have a tough time becoming citizens. I understand the drive for people to immigrate illegally and sympathize wholeheartedly with them, I know they are usually coming here seeking a better life from from extreme poverty that makes even WV look like a paradise, conflict, and horrific discrimination. The US is built on immigration, everyone even the Natives are descended from immigrants.

But unfortunately there are some harsh realities. The US is not the same as it was when vast boatloads of people came over here during the last century looking for a better life. The US has some pretty extreme problems, we are in debt something fierce and have trouble helping our own people with homelessness rampant especially in some areas and a full of gaping holes social safety net some say is near to breaking. Job opportunities are finite. Even leaving aside fears of global terrorism (which I'm not diminishing but not overly related for the question of South and Central American immigrants despite what Donny Dbag might think, its still relevant because of the problems of a porous border allowing such people in though) there can be problems with large numbers of people coming here putting a strain on our economy and immigration systems. The heartbreaking pictures of people caged and kids in kennels (which were from the Obama admin, not that Trump's policies are any better) are the result of our immigration system being overwhelmed. Not to mention the problems associated with breaking our laws to be here, a not very good first step to becoming a citizen even if a very understandable reason for doing so.

We cannot just take in everyone these days, while building Duh Wall is stupid the sentiment behind its need is valid. Immigration needs controlled definitely though.

Me personally I believe there should be stronger border controls (especially the US northern border, darn Canadians coming over here to take our supplies of Maple syrup, I'm onto you Canada) but there should be an easier path for citizenship for people, the DREAMer kids that are eligible should be made citizens but at the same time there should be harsher punishments for people who are deported and return time and again. Despite the term being considered a dirty word by people on both sides I think there can be a compromise between mercy and humane treatment of immigrants with protecting our borders and enforcing our laws.

Nealithi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:25 pmI hope you don't mind. You raised a few points I would like to comment on. First I am concerned with the political system of undo what the other guys did last time. That is basically stagnation. And I also think the wall is not a totally bad idea. I think it should be on the border. Not inland by X feet or miles. That is ceding territory. And I think a physical barrier will make it easier to patrol by delaying the basic crossing attempts. Will it stop someone tunneling for a few miles and popping up inside the borders? No. But then neither will drone patrols, or even people driving around the border. You can't stop 100%. But you can make it harder. And with the illegal crossings slowed perhaps then a focus on applicants could be handled more efficiently. Instead of simply swamping the whole system.