Sfdebris fallout 3

[clearspira]

By far the most ham-fisted "evil" faction is Caesars Legion - and it didn't have to be. Any legitimate points they have regarding the NCR and democracy in general are completely overshadowed by the fact they are all a bunch of slavers and rapists.

It also makes no sense a female Courier can join them or that she would wish to tbh. It isnt even implied that she will become a rape slave like every other woman, she just becomes their most trusted soldier and that's that.

[Rocketboy1313]

That's definitely the most tedious bit to play through (at least until the block puzzles in Far Harbor, which were a good attempt at a decent DLC shooting itself in its foot), but if they'd been skippable (or at least a hell of a lot shorter) I could've probably shrugged themselves off due to the "it's not really about the story" attitude I have with Bethesda games. Have one personal bit of backstory if you must (about five seconds to say he was a merc picked up by the Institute, as if it wasn't obvious anyway) and at least have the others relevant to the wider plot - it should've been about revealing a bit of what the Institute's plans and goals really were; I suspect that would've been hard because it would've required the writers to have worked it out.

At least the puzzles are game play using existing rules in a new way.
If they had done that with Kellogg and other bad guys with components in the game to unlock new perks it would have at least been SOMETHING.

If Bethesda is going to have glorified cut scenes (conversations where there is only 1 choice) then they need to just have them be cut scenes and be skippable.

[Keyser94]

Fallout 4's narrative had so many problems that I don't even think of it as worth debating, none of the four core factions make any sense and all of them need a serious rewrite. I appreciate the "Caves of Steel" inspiration for the institute, I appreciate many little things like the pipe guns and laser muskets, but holy hell does the story not make any damn sense.

The Far Harbor DLC managed to do all the narrative turns in the main game 10x's better and it is still only okay.

I thought Far Harbor was pretty good really. Not absolutely brilliant but still pretty good, especially by Bethesda standards.

Some of the plot issues in the main storyline are bigger than others though. I don't mind Kellogg having been around for ages - he's been modified and implanted. But it seems he left Diamond City a long time ago and you're following fresh clues - that bit I never figured out. The problem with the factions is that they're not terribly fleshed out and rather black and white but the Institute is the only one I've really got a problem with as it's never clear how they're supposed to be achieving anything with what they're doing, rather than just being boo hiss villains. The others fit well enough, in an unquestioning naive about their position sort of way.

As Chuck said though Bethesda games are really about the world, which is probably why story flaws bother me less in them than they do in a Bioware game, since they seem to be there mostly just to give you stuff to do in the game world.

Far Harbor is another recycling quest from Fallout 3, only with a few changes.

[Thebestoftherest]

You forgot the antagonist of Fallout 4 was the Institute.

Actually no, I didnt, but they could be easily replaced by the Brotherhood of Steel, also, the Synth is the only good premise of that game, is a shame that they wasted it, also, for a faction so keen in preserving the technology of the old world they are very antagonistic against Synth, even that Robert House made a whole fortune making robots and AI, Synth is just the next level, the Brotherhood would have use them as cheap soldiers, like in the Ghost in the Shell universe, and the whole idea that Father is your son made no sense, because the kidnapper seems that didnt aged a day since you come out of the vault meanwhile father seem to be in his fifties or sixties, is stupid as the plot of Arkham Knight, when a chemist like Crane forgot his chemistry classes and released a gas in the middle of a cold humid night, if you know anything about chemistry you would know that gases condensate very fast in the rain, more when is cold, and let not forget that he switch endgames, first the Ace Chemicals was the endgame that would destroy the city, but when Batman stop that, suddenly the Cloudbuster is the endgame out of nowhere and no explanation.

Fallout 4's narrative had so many problems that I don't even think of it as worth debating, none of the four core factions make any sense and all of them need a serious rewrite. I appreciate the "Caves of Steel" inspiration for the institute, I appreciate many little things like the pipe guns and laser muskets, but holy hell does the story not make any damn sense.

The Far Harbor DLC managed to do all the narrative turns in the main game 10x's better and it is still only okay.

It helps that you get actually choices as oppose to, you will either ignore someone or do as tehy asked.

[CharlesPhipps]

I actually really loved Nuka World. The thing is that Nuka World is a terribly designed bit of storytelling as there's no option to really help the locals without blocking off a big chunk of the story but it's easily one of my favorite "amusement park" areas in design. The fact I'm a huge fan of Disneyworld and Coca Cola as franchises in real life also meant that it was brain candy.


youtu.be/DIneiOpuS2M

[FlynnTaggart]

It also makes no sense a female Courier can join them or that she would wish to tbh. It isnt even implied that she will become a rape slave like every other woman, she just becomes their most trusted soldier and that's that.

If I remember correctly the Courier male or female cannot join the Legion, only like the NCR where you are more or less a civilian contractor. The reasons for joining are simple "its evil", also safer roads (I seriously hate that argument when people bring it up to try to defend the Legion, sure they rape, murder, and enslave entire tribes of people but you can walk to the local Super Duper Mart safely, just ignore the crucified people on telephone poles while doing so). At most you could argue long term benefits, a complete restructuring of post apocalyptic society rather then just the NCR with America 2.0 with all the problems to go with it. Though I think the problems of the NCR with corruption and extreme taxes pale in comparison to the problems of slavery and genocide. I'm just a bleeding heart that way (why I've played through NV RPing as a clone of Lincoln).

Presumably they let the Courier join them (or side with them if I'm right) even as a female because they recognize strength. Even Ulysses comments on this, Little Caesar respects strength though more obedience then just straight up strength. The Courier is the walking human apocalypse, slaughtering enemies and reshaping the Mojave. Caesar recognizes that strength and like Lanius believes he can twist that into his own benefit, so sure of his own charisma. Sure they won't let a female Courier fight in their arena but more then happy to let her capture the damn dam for them.

[CharlesPhipps]

It also makes no sense a female Courier can join them or that she would wish to tbh. It isnt even implied that she will become a rape slave like every other woman, she just becomes their most trusted soldier and that's that.

If I remember correctly the Courier male or female cannot join the Legion, only like the NCR where you are more or less a civilian contractor. The reasons for joining are simple "its evil", also safer roads (I seriously hate that argument when people bring it up to try to defend the Legion, sure they rape, murder, and enslave entire tribes of people but you can walk to the local Super Duper Mart safely, just ignore the crucified people on telephone poles while doing so). At most you could argue long term benefits, a complete restructuring of post apocalyptic society rather then just the NCR with America 2.0 with all the problems to go with it. Though I think the problems of the NCR with corruption and extreme taxes pale in comparison to the problems of slavery and genocide. I'm just a bleeding heart that way (why I've played through NV RPing as a clone of Lincoln).

Presumably they let the Courier join them (or side with them if I'm right) even as a female because they recognize strength. Even Ulysses comments on this, Little Caesar respects strength though more obedience then just straight up strength. The Courier is the walking human apocalypse, slaughtering enemies and reshaping the Mojave. Caesar recognizes that strength and like Lanius believes he can twist that into his own benefit, so sure of his own charisma. Sure they won't let a female Courier fight in their arena but more then happy to let her capture the damn dam for them.

A more simple explanation that doesn't contradict any of this is the fact that Caesar is aware he's running a scam and isn't a true believer. He isn't drinking his own Kool Aid like many cult leaders and knows that he's not the Son of Mars as he has apparently based much of his writing on Gibbons THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (Proflaggates is a word that Gibbons used but almost no one else, let alone Rome).

Caesar doesn't mind making an exception for the Courier because just like the fact he has his Legion use dirty bombs and chemical weapons as well as the fact he uses an Auto-Doc to treat himself (because he's an old man in a strength worshiping cult), what he says goes. Because he's a god, his soldiers obey even if it doesn't make sense to them.

He's very much like Immorten Joe, really in that he's a hypocrite who made a fake religion to control a bunch of boys and rape a bunch of women. Funny how Fallout New Vegas and Mad Max Fury Road essentially came up with the same character.

[Scififan]

So what is your favorite extra mission? I personally like the virtual training mission where you are fighting in the US-Chinese war, the last war before the bombs dropped. It had an interesting sense of fallout history.

[Independent George]

I suspect that new vegas is coming, but he's doing fallout 3 first for 2 reasons.
1. Because it was released first
2. Because he can then show how much better new vegas is by contrasting it with 3

He loves both games. Which is weird because most people who picked up New Vegas did so because they liked Fallout 3.

Oy, I've had way too many nerd arguments over this over the years. I've got over 1,400 hours in New Vegas, compared to about 90 in FO3, so I clearly prefer one to the other. Nevertheless, I don't think NV is a better game than FO3 - rather it's a different game, almost a different genre. Chuck said it himself in the video - Bethesda (and FO3) is about the sandbox, and Bioware (and Obsidian by extension) is about the story & characters. The fact that I prefer one style of game doesn't make the other one bad, or people who disagree with me wrong. It just means we like different things. I get more annoyed with the people who are ostensibly on my side of the FO3/FNV divide, because they tend be far more obnoxious about it than the FO3 fans.

Worse, I've noticed many FNV fans get dogmatic about the 'true' canon from FO/FO2, which annoys me to no end; video games are the collaborative effort of dozens of people working together. Like television, canon is going to change as people rotate in and out, and interpret things differently. I may like or dislike how they shake out, but there's nothing objectively wrong with those things changing over time. I'd even go so far as to say it's necessary - the alternative is to just keep following the same damned formula forever.

The really ironic thing is that this one of the recurring themes in FNV - the necessity of letting go of the past and forging a future based on the world that is, and not what you wish were still there.

[Thebestoftherest]

Think he is it because 3 came first.