Star Trek (DIS): Despite Yourself

[clearspira]

It doesn't feel progressive because in 2018 there is NOTHING SPECIAL about being progressive. Every other show now has gays and POC and ''strong'' women and yet for some reason people still act as if they are breaking new ground every time they include one of these groups. Patting yourself on the back for these things instead of focusing on the plot is detrimental because we have seen it all before.

Star Trek basically missed two decades of progression. Mind you, I appreciate the fact it isn't falling into the pattern other works are in retrograding.

I think that's a little unfair. In the 1980s-2000 era we still had a black captain, a woman captain, a blind man, multiple ethnicity crewmembers and men in skirts implying that we have moved beyond certain gender roles. In fact, I would argue that these examples were better done than STD as they didn't crow about it at every opportunity. They were just there, side by side with everyone else without fanfare.

[CharlesPhipps]

Reminding people of the importance of Star Trek in being progressive isn't a bad thing, IMHO.

[Admiral X]

It's CURRENT YEAR you guys.



Of course we're just a little more progressive and ahead of the curve here at Star Trek.

[Mebius]

I think the biggest thing with Discovery and it's new venue, and possibly most of how trek comes off now a days, is how much louder it is when it does things. Tilly can't just say that F-word, she has to say it and then have Stamets comment and follow it up. They can't just have interspecies sex in Discovery, it has to be full on frontal klingon sexual assault or if it's just sex between two humans, it has to be sex under false pretenses, and must end with a phaser in someone's face or a harsh betrayal (has anyone noticed that all the sex in Discovery is under some kind of coercion or with someone who isn't who they say they are?) Michael Burnham can't just be super logical because she was raised by vulcans, she has to do something to remind you of this fact and that it wasn't just any vulcans that raised her, it was mother fucking Sarek, and that she's the stepsister of the most famous vulcan of all time.

I think this wears on people and you can even hear it in chucks voice during the review when Michael is talking to Ash after he starts figuring out who or what he might be.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's also built for SHOCKING REVEALS.

Becuase we have TWO double agents on the ship.

[Madner Kami]

I think that's a little unfair. In the 1980s-2000 era we still had a black captain, a woman captain, a blind man, multiple ethnicity crewmembers and men in skirts implying that we have moved beyond certain gender roles. In fact, I would argue that these examples were better done than STD as they didn't crow about it at every opportunity. They were just there, side by side with everyone else without fanfare.

Exactly this. If I want to display that it's normal for a group of people to be in a position where they are not in reallife, I just display them as normal people and don't call attention to it or start to spotlight them at every opportunity. If you want things to be normal, then display them as being normal.

[FlynnTaggart]

This is mostly where I checked out of the series.

I love the Mirror Universe but there's no real sense of fun here and the contrast with the Federation isn't particularly strong because we're seeing them as a bunch of warriors in a horribly bleak as well as dark situation themselves.

Same here. Despite reservations I wanted to like the show, even enjoyed the first episode war crimes and stupidity and all. But switching gear halfway through the first season was just the last straw for me.

It seemed to show the writers weren't at all interested in the Klingon War plot, the central plot of the show. I mean I can't really blame them considering it was so far boring as all hell without even a hint of the size of the conflict, the strain on the Federation, anything save for some blurbs about how bad the war was going. No instead we got fluff, useless boring fluff punctuated by somewhat interesting stuff (Ash in particular was one of the more interesting bits of the series, either side of him though I think they should have just stuck with who he was on the surface rather then his secret self).

So they moved to the MU where I guess they can show gorn and torture porn plus lots of cleavage. It just was so creatively bankrupt.

And the sad thing was either plot, the Klingon War or a Feddie ship in the MU, could have been amazing under a competent writer, even going with the "deconstruct a Star Trek show" type thing I think they were going for maybe (or maybe it was incompetence and not knowing a Trek show was). Show a war far more brutal and destructive then possibly even the later Dominion War, a war that threatens to make the Federation either die or turn full military, instead its the war that forges the Federation into the peaceful utopia that it would become. Or have the Discovery in the MU, a Starfleet ship in this dark mirror trying to hold onto their values, their way of life as they try to find a way home without bringing the darkness back with them.

[CharlesPhipps]

There's interesting stuff in the Klingon War plot but it's clear there's some rewrites and I wouldn't be surprised if that was a relic of the previous directors.

Things to note:

* They rewrote the ship's captain to not actually hate the Klingons
* We rarely get them confronting Klingons
* The show kills the "central villain" of the Klingons early
* For all the show's budget, we rarely get any space battles or phaser battles
* The costumes have to be incredibly clunky.
* The speaking in Klingon hurts the acting.
* We have difficulty with the actual war logistics. Like a simple, "The Federation is outnumbered 3 to 1" or whatever.

[Fianna]

I think that's a little unfair. In the 1980s-2000 era we still had a black captain, a woman captain, a blind man, multiple ethnicity crewmembers and men in skirts implying that we have moved beyond certain gender roles. In fact, I would argue that these examples were better done than STD as they didn't crow about it at every opportunity. They were just there, side by side with everyone else without fanfare.

On the other hand, in the 1980's-2000 era, we had Chakotay.

[FaxModem1]

Personally, I rather enjoyed this episode. This is when Discovery's crew actually seems to gel a bit. It also has the feeling and energy of an actual Trek episode. Sidenote, this episode was directed by Jonathan Frakes, which was a great idea for a mid-season premiere, as it gave the right tone to start the season. An examination of just how something as backwards as the Mirror Universe makes sense. As Chuck said, they're all caged starving cats, afraid to show weakness, for they'll be pounced on by the rest. Notice how every crew member turns away so as to not draw attention to themselves.

This is best shown in the turbolift scene. Mirror Connor, when we see him via hologram, has that blatant 'I love evil and murdering kittens' thing going on. But when it's just Burnham and Connor in the turbolift, Connor lets his guard down, showing a bit of subtlety in who he really is, and that he's doing this because it's necessary to survive. He doesn't want to do it, but he does so anyway. It's quite possible that he would have been a lot like his mirror counterpart in a better environment. There's the slight chance that EVERYONE in the Terran Empire is acting this way, like a 1984ish nightmare to keep alive. That's part of Burnam's arc while they're stuck there.

Also, we get intentionally gaudy gold and black uniforms, the classic salute, and continuity porn. Personally, I wish we kept the Discovery in the Mirror Universe the entire season, and concluded the season with the Terran Empire's little civil war in future episodes. Then they had to ruin it by making Lorca the cliche villain and doing some weird thing of having the Emperor have a possible redemption arc that no one would believe.



That said, fridging half of the gay couple for the big reveal that most people had already figured out wasn't necessary. And it's one that the producers of the show freely admitted that they didn't realize were doing until it was too late.

But all in all, it added a bit more of the swashbuckling fun that seemed to be missing from the show.