Star Trek (DIS): Despite Yourself

[CharlesPhipps]

I feel like it says something that no one is actually discussing the episode.

[Akatama]

Since this is the Mirror Universe, "captain Killy" has to be the protagonist of her own comic where she faces good, idealistic heroes.

That being said I have to admit I like Lorca. It's nice to see a captain with a more grounded approach to things (albeit Sisko had that too).

[Mebius]

It stunk when they foreshadowed this in the direction of the series with mirror universe Stamets acting with autonomy in his, well mirror. Me and many other people did see the series taking a completely different direction when it came to the ending. The writers had established this was a prequel (or sequel for enterprise) in the main timeline, but a great many things happened that were so game changing in Discovery that the only way to have this be in continuity with the rest of the Non Kelvin timeline was if the ending was a tragedy.

[clearspira]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/c110.php

I haven't been watching Discovery, so I'm wondering how well the episode (or episodes, since it seems to be at least 2 episodes) was received. Are people really that enthused by the Mirror Universe? The original episode was great, and there were maybe 2 good episodes involving the mirror universe in DS9, but mostly they've been silly "turn your brain off" entertainment. Unfortunately, this episode references "In a Mirror, Darkly," which is one of the worst cases of that.

Was anyone really clamoring for a mirror universe episode?

I gave up on STD about halfway through too. The whole show is a canon-destroying insult as most prequels are, but more than that, I find discussing it with those that love the show on forums and suchlike very tiresome as the majority of them seem to have only three comebacks to my criticisms: 1) I'm a misogynist/racist 2) I just ''don't get it'' 3) I'm an old man that wants the cardboard sets to return. I have never encountered this attitude to such extremes with any other Trek show before and it really says a lot about the defenders of this show that these are the arguments they are defaulting to.
See also: why I am sick of discussing Disney Star Wars and why I will probably get sick very quickly of the female Dr Who if she turns out to be the next Colin Baker.

[CharlesPhipps]

This is mostly where I checked out of the series.

I love the Mirror Universe but there's no real sense of fun here and the contrast with the Federation isn't particularly strong because we're seeing them as a bunch of warriors in a horribly bleak as well as dark situation themselves.

[bronnt]

This is mostly where I checked out of the series.

I love the Mirror Universe but there's no real sense of fun here and the contrast with the Federation isn't particularly strong because we're seeing them as a bunch of warriors in a horribly bleak as well as dark situation themselves.

That's what I was thinking. They've already gone in for a darker tone and a much more cynical style of storytelling, so it feels like the mirror universe doesn't actually work with the direction of the series. The idea of a mirror universe is really kind of campy, and the writers for DS9 were poking some fun at the concept in a few of their episodes.

But again, I haven't been following the show at all, so it's not like they'd lose me as a potential audience. I think it's clear that there's something off with their decision making process since they made this show a prequel after all the failings of Enterprise.

[Worffan101]

I just hated the entire show because of the increasingly obvious crap writing, the lack of diversity (where. Is. The. Trans. Character? It's 20-fucking-18), the obnoxious attitudes of the writers and the show's defenders, Fridgegate, the fact that the showrunners are lying assholes, and the fact that literally every single story decision is the least interesting one possible, from the cliched and intolerably dull het romance to the way that Lorca acts like Snidley Whiplash playing Donald Trump...

Yeah, I hate this show, and the weird part is that all the big elements (Mirror Georgiou, Lorca being Mirror, Burnham starting the war through a bad call) could have actually been really good with just a few tweaks. Spore drive? Replace it with transwarp that's often on the fritz and is super inaccurate and dangerous. That removes the stupid shroom BS and the tardigrade plot that made no sense. Mirror Georgiou? She was working with T'Kuvma to start the war, making her the main villain and reducing the racist portrayal of the Klingons as savage barbarians. Burnham fucks up? Instead of her being a racist mutineer, have her be in command due to Georgiou being injured, and make a split-second snap decision that goes bad like Worf in that one episode in DS9 where he was framed for war crimes. Lorca is Mirror? Easy, he's a traumatized refugee who pretends to be his Prime self and is scared shitless of Mirror Georgiou.

I came up with a whole rewrite over on alternatehistory.com, I was so pissed at the wasted potential.

[CharlesPhipps]

Honestly, it is the most progressive show in Star Trek. Albeit, just barely. Black female lead, a gay married couple (of course that couldn't stand), and Phillipa. But it's 2018 so it doesn't feel that progressive. I wish they'd genuinely gone and had Tilly be autistic for example.

I think the problem with the show is that it's characters haven't established themselves well enough to bounce off one another so we care. Part of this is the heavy emphasis on Michael who is an odd choice to be the emotional lead because she's an unemotional reserved character. As such, we can't quite bond with her the way we would Kirk.

The other characters are fine but all of them have other issues in being likable. There's only one everywoman and that's why Tilly is the most popular so far.

Lorca's PTSD and ruthlessness made him intriguing but they shot that in the foot as well.

[clearspira]

Honestly, it is the most progressive show in Star Trek. Albeit, just barely. Black female lead, a gay married couple (of course that couldn't stand), and Phillipa. But it's 2018 so it doesn't feel that progressive. I wish they'd genuinely gone and had Tilly be autistic for example.

It doesn't feel progressive because in 2018 there is NOTHING SPECIAL about being progressive. Every other show now has gays and POC and ''strong'' women and yet for some reason people still act as if they are breaking new ground every time they include one of these groups. Patting yourself on the back for these things instead of focusing on the plot is detrimental because we have seen it all before.

[CharlesPhipps]

It doesn't feel progressive because in 2018 there is NOTHING SPECIAL about being progressive. Every other show now has gays and POC and ''strong'' women and yet for some reason people still act as if they are breaking new ground every time they include one of these groups. Patting yourself on the back for these things instead of focusing on the plot is detrimental because we have seen it all before.

Star Trek basically missed two decades of progression. Mind you, I appreciate the fact it isn't falling into the pattern other works are in retrograding.