SG1 Maternal Instinct

[Deledrius]

Exactly.

It means somewhere along the line someone messed up in how they defined "good" if good is not good.

[Frustration]

I get that this is useful in maintaining the status quo in films and television, but it strikes me as especially nihilistic when stories do this as a conclusion. The frustrating thing is that it's usually presented as some kind of enlightened beyond-good-and-evil stance without acknowledging that the execution in practice is nihilism. It's not "better than good" despite the implication.

I think we'd have to clarify what you mean by 'nihilism' before we can discuss further. In fairness to you, the word was invented to be an insult, and it's notorious for having many, many different intended meanings.

One of the aspects of SG-1 I like is that, like traditional Star Trek, they bring up issues of ethics, morality, and philosophy - and don't always make an absolute mess of it. It goes far beyond the status quo: there have been multiple episodes when the team finds themselves in the position of wanting to keep dangerous technologies away from alien societies they fear will misuse or handle them poorly, which throws an interesting light on all the times they've pleaded with more-advanced societies to give them sophisticated tech.

[Frustration]

It means somewhere along the line someone messed up in how they defined "good" if good is not good.

Or, they're not using the word 'good' to refer to your favorite preferences.

Let's use in-show examples. How 'good' is Oma Desala? Is her 'goodness' greater than, equal to, or less than the other Ascended?

[McAvoy]

It means somewhere along the line someone messed up in how they defined "good" if good is not good.

Or, they're not using the word 'good' to refer to your favorite preferences.

Let's use in-show examples. How 'good' is Oma Desala? Is her 'goodness' greater than, equal to, or less than the other Ascended?

We have only seen two ascended beings that could be classified as not good. Anubis and Adria. Everyone else was actually good people. In almost every sense of the word. That their really only sin is being too involved with the lower realm. Some have been punished, some have watched over.

Seems like the ascended are not evil in anyway. More like neutral good.

[Madner Kami]

I don't consider it "good", when people are harmed through inaction despite any lack of a threat to the person deciding for inaction.

[McAvoy]

I don't consider it "good", when people are harmed through inaction despite any lack of a threat to the person deciding for inaction.

Considering outside the diner scene, all we see are the ascended beings who break the rules in some fashion. And if they full out break the rules we have seen what the Ascended do.

They can only do their own good in the framework of the rules they are in. Otherwise it would end up being a one time deal for them.

One of them had to guard that super weapon for eternity on a dead world. And probably would have if not for SG-1 discovering the planet.

[Madner Kami]

Oh, I get why some Ancients don't act, being forced into inaction. It's the Ancient that enforce the inaction which I have a problem with. Those ain't good people, especially when they force their own flock into inaction in matters they fucked up themselves pre-ascendency, like the Wraith and the Replicators.

[Deledrius]

Oh, I get why some Ancients don't act, being forced into inaction. It's the Ancient that enforce the inaction which I have a problem with. Those ain't good people, especially when they force their own flock into inaction in matters they fucked up themselves pre-ascendency, like the Wraith and the Replicators.

Absolutely.

At that point it gets into topics that Babylon 5 dealt with more than SG-1, but it's certainly raised by this aspect of the show.

[Frustration]

I don't consider it "good", when people are harmed through inaction despite any lack of a threat to the person deciding for inaction.

It's already been established that Ascended intervention presents a variety of dangers to the Ascended, and tends to harm the entities they're trying to help. So they largely act to conceal their existence from the mortal planes, and let things play out without interference.

Evil is too strong to confront; the only way to win is to deny it combat.

[Frustration]

Oh, I get why some Ancients don't act, being forced into inaction. It's the Ancient that enforce the inaction which I have a problem with. Those ain't good people

Exactly. They're True Neutral. They are preserving their own existence, rather than sacrificing themselves in order to prevent suffering to others.

The Ascended Ancients could certainly fix all the problems they left behind when they Ascended. But there are more Ascended than just the Ancients, and they have strict rules - they'd have to Descend and wipe out all the problems from within the mortal plane, without any of the knowledge or power they gained. There are a variety of reasons they don't want to do that, not least that 1) they failed to resolve those problems the first time around, 2) it would almost certainly result in their deaths and 3) they'd have to clean up that pesky final project of theirs, too.

If you solve someone else's problem, they don't grow in understanding and power. They've left the problems behind for us to solve - and no, we shouldn't be grateful. But, in the long run, they've done us a favor.