Patterns of Force

[CharlesPhipps]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

[clearspira]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

The thing is, in real life, there is no reason why other planets should follow our technological ''levels''. What if Rome never fell, or Ming China never became insular, or the Library of Alexandria was never burned? What if we missed out on an Einstein because he was a slave or died before his time?

I would say it is possible for an alien planet to be simultaneously 19th and 20th century depending on who, what, where and how its people had developed.

[CharlesPhipps]

True but I think John Gill is implied to have at least been passing out the design specs here.

At least to a mid-20th century level.

How they got nuclear weapons may be because the Nazis didn't have the same disdain for it (as well as Allied sabotage).

[McAvoy]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

The thing is, in real life, there is no reason why other planets should follow our technological ''levels''. What if Rome never fell, or Ming China never became insular, or the Library of Alexandria was never burned? What if we missed out on an Einstein because he was a slave or died before his time?

I would say it is possible for an alien planet to be simultaneously 19th and 20th century depending on who, what, where and how its people had developed.

That's TOS for you. Its why TOS should be put in that blurry area of what to take seriously and what not to.

This brings me from another post in the Discovery post, but how stupid Kelpians are as a species.

Writers really don't think that much into the creation of species. And set designers, costume designers will do what they can on the budget they got, and sometimes they will get lazy about it.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that a species not to have gasoline engines because their oil is not readily accessible.

Like would the Vulcans or Cardassians would actually have coal? Do they have a forests on desert plants? Or are they scattered like on Earth?

[CharlesPhipps]

Just to reiterate a point, Kelpians interest me unlike the majority of species because they actually attempted to do something interesting. They attempted to go beyond, "humans with bumpy foreheads" and actually address the idea of a different evolutionary path.

Maybe a good idea, maybe bad.

But different.

[Lazerlike42]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

The thing is, in real life, there is no reason why other planets should follow our technological ''levels''. What if Rome never fell, or Ming China never became insular, or the Library of Alexandria was never burned? What if we missed out on an Einstein because he was a slave or died before his time?

I would say it is possible for an alien planet to be simultaneously 19th and 20th century depending on who, what, where and how its people had developed.

That's TOS for you. Its why TOS should be put in that blurry area of what to take seriously and what not to.

This brings me from another post in the Discovery post, but how stupid Kelpians are as a species.

Writers really don't think that much into the creation of species. And set designers, costume designers will do what they can on the budget they got, and sometimes they will get lazy about it.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that a species not to have gasoline engines because their oil is not readily accessible.

Like would the Vulcans or Cardassians would actually have coal? Do they have a forests on desert plants? Or are they scattered like on Earth?

I think the general rule with Star Trek is that everything other than earth and humans is going to be homogenized. We all know that the cultures and governments of other planets are always treated as these monolithic things without any diversity or variation, and I think ultimately the same is probably true of something like their environments. Vulcan is a giant desert. Ferenginar is all rainy, all the time, all over. This is just how Star Trek is for whatever reason.

[McAvoy]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

The thing is, in real life, there is no reason why other planets should follow our technological ''levels''. What if Rome never fell, or Ming China never became insular, or the Library of Alexandria was never burned? What if we missed out on an Einstein because he was a slave or died before his time?

I would say it is possible for an alien planet to be simultaneously 19th and 20th century depending on who, what, where and how its people had developed.

That's TOS for you. Its why TOS should be put in that blurry area of what to take seriously and what not to.

This brings me from another post in the Discovery post, but how stupid Kelpians are as a species.

Writers really don't think that much into the creation of species. And set designers, costume designers will do what they can on the budget they got, and sometimes they will get lazy about it.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that a species not to have gasoline engines because their oil is not readily accessible.

Like would the Vulcans or Cardassians would actually have coal? Do they have a forests on desert plants? Or are they scattered like on Earth?

I think the general rule with Star Trek is that everything other than earth and humans is going to be homogenized. We all know that the cultures and governments of other planets are always treated as these monolithic things without any diversity or variation, and I think ultimately the same is probably true of something like their environments. Vulcan is a giant desert. Ferenginar is all rainy, all the time, all over. This is just how Star Trek is for whatever reason.

Yeah. That's pretty much my point. Only the Cardassians got any semblance of social complexity.

Writers the producers are not there to create an elaborate history of the L'oi'lli'Pop Guild showing their civilization history of the past 10,000 years or how they evolved on their planet. Or how 5,671 years ago they slaughtered the K'areba'a'rs in a global battle of Supremecy of the Gr'ai Castle.

Nope this is Species ABC and their species needs help when their star partially stripped their atmosphere. That's the episode.

[clearspira]

Well, we saw what Vandal Savage did with one laptop in "Savage Time."

Checking the script of "Patterns of Force", I was surprised to find the episode actually answers my question:

CHEKOV: Spacecraft approaching from inner planet.
KIRK: From Ekos?
SPOCK: Yes, but it must be a Zeon ship. Zeons do have a crude interplanetary capability. Reaction powered. A small rocket. It is on an intercept course. That would mean it has sophisticated detection devices which neither Zeon nor Ekos should have.
KIRK: Have you raised anyone, Lieutenant?
UHURA: Nothing, sir.
SPOCK: Captain, it's an unmanned probe which seems to be carrying a warhead.
KIRK: Stand by phasers.
CHEKOV: Phasers ready.
KIRK: Range, Mister Chekov?
CHEKOV: Two thousand kilometres, closing fast.
KIRK: Fire.
SPOCK: Fascinating. A thermonuclear warhead.
MCCOY: That's generations ahead of where these people should be technically. How'd they manage that?
KIRK: Maybe they had help. Maximum orbit. Take us out of range of their detection range.
SPOCK: Most interesting. We were attacked by a thermonuclear missile from a planet which should have no such weapon.
CHEKOV: Orbit computed and locked in, sir.
KIRK: Execute.
UHURA: Captain, no response from John Gill on any channel.
MCCOY: He must be dead. And what's going on down there on Ekos?
SPOCK: According to our records, the Ekosians are a primitive, warlike people in a state of anarchy. The other planet, Zeon, has a relatively high technology, and its people are peaceful.

Generations ahead could be about a century so maybe they were about Industrialized Era. That may be taking Kirk too literally, though.

The thing is, in real life, there is no reason why other planets should follow our technological ''levels''. What if Rome never fell, or Ming China never became insular, or the Library of Alexandria was never burned? What if we missed out on an Einstein because he was a slave or died before his time?

I would say it is possible for an alien planet to be simultaneously 19th and 20th century depending on who, what, where and how its people had developed.

That's TOS for you. Its why TOS should be put in that blurry area of what to take seriously and what not to.

This brings me from another post in the Discovery post, but how stupid Kelpians are as a species.

Writers really don't think that much into the creation of species. And set designers, costume designers will do what they can on the budget they got, and sometimes they will get lazy about it.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that a species not to have gasoline engines because their oil is not readily accessible.

Like would the Vulcans or Cardassians would actually have coal? Do they have a forests on desert plants? Or are they scattered like on Earth?

I think the general rule with Star Trek is that everything other than earth and humans is going to be homogenized. We all know that the cultures and governments of other planets are always treated as these monolithic things without any diversity or variation, and I think ultimately the same is probably true of something like their environments. Vulcan is a giant desert. Ferenginar is all rainy, all the time, all over. This is just how Star Trek is for whatever reason.

Yeah. That's pretty much my point. Only the Cardassians got any semblance of social complexity.

Writers the producers are not there to create an elaborate history of the L'oi'lli'Pop Guild showing their civilization history of the past 10,000 years or how they evolved on their planet. Or how 5,671 years ago they slaughtered the K'areba'a'rs in a global battle of Supremecy of the Gr'ai Castle.

Nope this is Species ABC and their species needs help when their star partially stripped their atmosphere. That's the episode.

For planet of the week races its fair enough. You got like 45 minutes.

In terms of long term races being "fleshed out" it seems to depend on whether or not you have a fan favourite character as part of that race or not. Worf, Garak, Spock brought that history and culture with their characters. Even Quark did much to expand the Ferengi. (As an aside, we need a female Ferengi in New Trek if there isnt one. Would be cool to see what Rom actually managed to do.)

[Scififan]

I've come to the conclusion that the subcutaneous transponder was created to avoid Shatner faking another stomach cramp to trick the guards and escape.

Seriously, why was this thing never used before or since? Why introduce something that clearly would take the drama out of nearly every episode?

Didn't it basically come up in Undiscovered Country? Kirk and Spock knew there was a chance Kirk and McCoy would be taken prisoner, and there was not time for a transponder. So he put the patch on Kirk. Who was well aware of that fact.

I remember they couldn't beam out because there was a force field keeping that from happening.

[Nealithi]

I've come to the conclusion that the subcutaneous transponder was created to avoid Shatner faking another stomach cramp to trick the guards and escape.

Seriously, why was this thing never used before or since? Why introduce something that clearly would take the drama out of nearly every episode?

Didn't it basically come up in Undiscovered Country? Kirk and Spock knew there was a chance Kirk and McCoy would be taken prisoner, and there was not time for a transponder. So he put the patch on Kirk. Who was well aware of that fact.

I remember they couldn't beam out because there was a force field keeping that from happening.

"Spock put a berydium patch on my shoulder before we left. They can track us from two sectors away."
And if you watch closely you see Spock touch Kirk's shoulder and from then till they return to the Enterprise it is there.