Trans Women and comedy that punches down

[Thebestoftherest]

If your not taking the piss out of someone who is higher on the social stature than you, that is not satire that is just bullying.

And this opinion is why comedy is so fucking boring nowadays. Every single time someone runs a ''greatest of all time sitcom'' poll, there is almost never anything on it that is less than 15 years old.

OK, let's test that. Here's a list from Rolling Stone. 27 of the shows listed started after 2010. 45 ended after 2010 or haven't ended at all. 5 have had revivals that ended after 2010. This list is from 3 years ago. Given the epoch that we're looking at, it's surprising that 2010 and later has the performance that it does. There were only 28 shows that started between 1951 to 1984 on the list. There's 27 from 1985 to 2000, and 2000 to 2009 gets solid performance at 18.

Something else that might be worth mentioning is how many shows from the past 15 do people just not care for compare to the world before. I mean around that time is when the Internet started to take over our lives, and more people were cutting the core for cable and not renewing it. I mean there are shows running strong today with viewing numbers that would have gotten them cancel around 2008 era television.

[Thebestoftherest]

Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

If your not taking the piss out of someone who is higher on the social stature than you, that is not satire that is just bullying.

And this opinion is why comedy is so fucking boring nowadays. Every single time someone runs a ''greatest of all time sitcom'' poll, there is almost never anything on it that is less than 15 years old.

OK, let's test that. Here's a list from Rolling Stone. 27 of the shows listed started after 2010. 45 ended after 2010 or haven't ended at all. 5 have had revivals that ended after 2010. This list is from 3 years ago. Given the epoch that we're looking at, it's surprising that 2010 and later has the performance that it does. There were only 28 shows that started between 1951 to 1984 on the list. There's 27 from 1985 to 2000, and 2000 to 2009 gets solid performance at 18.

This trend is consistent with my reasoning that media started steering more towards subscription based content, starting from the turn of the century leading into today.

[clearspira]

I've seen "I can't laugh at this, where's the cruelty?" floating around as a meme to mock conservatives for a while. Kind of surreal to see someone say it unironically about himself.

All of the most famous British comedies have a basis in cruelty in some way.

Fawlty Towers: Basil mocking his Spanish waiter who can't speak English, including smacking him on the head in various funny ways. Basil insulting his German guests including goose stepping.

Blackadder: Upper to middle class Blackadder mocks, belittles, beats up and demeans working class Baldrick. The fourth series ends with upper class Malchet getting literally everyone else gunned down.

One Foot in the Grave: One of the darkest comedies of all time. Makes a joke out of depression, ageing, suicide, poverty, violence against old people.

Little Britain: Insulted absolutely literally everyone to the point that it got itself cancelled by crybabies. Doesn't change the fact that it was wildly successful only about 15 years ago.

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme: Show about a man hungry yet ugly woman and a man hungry gay guy competing with each other to have sex with as many guys as possible. Most of the jokes revolved around sexual harassment, sexual assault, jokes about ugly women and gay jokes.

Men Behaving Badly: Exactly what it sounds like. A show about two guys who drink, smoke, and talk shit. One of the guys, Tony, spent 80% of the show's run literally stalking the female protagonist Deborah until she caved in and got together with him. Rated as one of the most popular comedies of the 1990s.

I could keep going on. Mock me all you wish, doesn't change that i'm right. Modern comedies have no sticking power in the collective consciousness. Inclusiveness is not funny. Safe is not funny. And I have a whole list of extremely successful, profitable and long-lasting comedies to prove it.

[clearspira]

Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying.

Who told you that is what satire is for?

satire
/ˈsatʌɪə/
noun
the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
"the crude satire seems to be directed at the fashionable protest singers of the time"

[McAvoy]

Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying.

Who told you that is what satire is for?

satire
/ˈsatʌɪə/
noun
the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
"the crude satire seems to be directed at the fashionable protest singers of the time"

No. Thebestoftherest is correct. The whole point of satire is to in usually in a clever way to expose something like you just said stupidity, vices, politics and issues.

In this context, you make a satire about those who are overly critical or hostile about the transcommunity not the transperson itself.

You do satire against those who are against the gay community, not the gay person.

You do satire against those who racist of the illegals crossing the border, not the illegal itself.

The moment you decide do use satire against the person itself you step into the realm of bullying.

Why do you think Tropical Thunder is considered this day and age's version of Blazzing Saddles? It's satire on Hollywood itself. I can absolutely guarantee you no black community is going after RDJ for wearing black face, because a) it was done so well that not many actually knew it was him under it especially if they missed the intro, b) how he was portrayed in the movie was ridiculing not only just black face but also method acting. They had the entire time a genuine black guy making all of the necessary comments to show what Lazarus was doing. 'WHAT do YOU mean you people?' for example.

Most of the famous and popular shows that people day aged badly are not satire. Products of their own time and even like the case of Friends and How I Met Your Mother or Big Bang Theory, had issues when they were broadcasted then just to name a few. You could argue at surface level Modern Family was a sature in that it was a mockumentary and I wouldn't argue against anyone who doesn't think it's satire anyway.

The Simpsons and Married With Children are examples that at least initially started out as satire of the typical 80's sitcom. The Simpsons for example made a point about no laugh tracks due to their over use. Roseanne was not satire but just a different type of sitcom that showed the blue collar family struggling each month.

Also I would not put alot of stock into sites that make a point to ridicule older sitcoms like Ranker for example when they make their top 20 or whatever lists. They are doing that to generate clicks. Like saying Peggy from Married With Children deserved better because Al Bundy was such a horrible husband. Anyone who watches that show knows Al is bad but so is Peggy but that is the point, it's Clickbait.

[McAvoy]

Oh and for the record, Married With Children was made not because the networks or the standards were looser than back then it was because Fox was new and looking at to get anything on the air to fill the time. And they did just enough not to get the censors on their butts. It's not that it wouldn't have been made today, it wouldn't have been back then either on any other network.

[Deledrius]

I've seen "I can't laugh at this, where's the cruelty?" floating around as a meme to mock conservatives for a while. Kind of surreal to see someone say it unironically about himself.

All of the most famous British comedies have a basis in cruelty in some way.

Fawlty Towers: Basil mocking his Spanish waiter who can't speak English, including smacking him on the head in various funny ways. Basil insulting his German guests including goose stepping.

Okay, I can't speak to the rest of the shows you list because I haven't seen enough of them, but I have to point out here that Basil Fawlty is the butt of the joke on Fawlty Towers. The joke in all of these instances is how much of an idiot/bigot/misogynist/know-it-all Basil is, and that it always makes things worse for him. You might find his actions funny, and I'm not going to say there was no intent to have his abuses be humorous (though much of this comes down to the performances more than the situations; everyone on the show was a comedic genius), but ultimately the joke is always on Basil. His cruelty is wrong, and it reflects poorly on him every time.

[hammerofglass]

I've seen "I can't laugh at this, where's the cruelty?" floating around as a meme to mock conservatives for a while. Kind of surreal to see someone say it unironically about himself.

All of the most famous British comedies have a basis in cruelty in some way.

Fawlty Towers: Basil mocking his Spanish waiter who can't speak English, including smacking him on the head in various funny ways. Basil insulting his German guests including goose stepping.

Okay, I can't speak to the rest of the shows you list because I haven't seen enough of them, but I have to point out here that Basil Fawlty is the butt of the joke on Fawlty Towers. The joke in all of these instances is how much of an idiot/bigot/misogynist/know-it-all Basil is, and that it always makes things worse for him. You might find his actions funny, and I'm not going to say there was no intent to have his abuses be humorous (though much of this comes down to the performances more than the situations; everyone on the show was a comedic genius), but ultimately the joke is always on Basil. His cruelty is wrong, and it reflects poorly on him every time.

Blackadder is the same, the theme song even directly calls the title character "you horrid little man". Also the specific scene clearspira refers to where the cast of the fourth series dies pointlessly going over the side into German machine guns is notorious specifically for not playing it for laughs at all, just a pointless waste of lives. There's even a fade to a poppy field at the end of it.

Little Britain I haven't seen all of but it's a similar bit, half the humor is unpleasant people doing stupid things and the other half is the straight characters reacting more or less appropriately. The most relevant recurring sketch is probably Daffyd, the self-proclaimed "only gay in the village" who makes being as stereotypically gay as possible his whole personality. The thing that makes it actually work is that almost everyone he meets is openly but not stereotypically gay and politely putting up with his eccentricity, he just never picks up in it because they're normal people and not cartoon characters.

The others clearspira listed I've never heard of either.

[McAvoy]

I am going to point out most British comedy falls flat on American ears for the most part. There is exceptions to that but 95-99% of your comedy is different from ours. Culture differences.

Take for the example the differences between the two The Office shows. The American version tried in it's first season to be like the British version until they went in another direction in the second season.

Monty Python is just funny on all levels.