Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Winter
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Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

Post by Winter »

So, a few days ago IDW released a one shot comic meant to celebrate LGBT Representation for Pride Month and as such they made a cover for issue that show cased most of the major characters in Mainline Trek that have shown up over the last 50+ years.

Image

So, this kinda bugs me mainly because it doesn't show Jadzia Dax but even if it did that would only bring the total number of characters on the cover to 12... And three of these characters weren't made LGBT until recently and if we count Dax 6 of these characters have either broken up and in 2 died and in Dax's case that was a death that stuck.

It's no secret that Trek has a bad track record when it comes to LGBTAQ+ Representation and while they have improved, more so then Star Wars even now it feels like the series is stuck in the past. Take Culber from Discovery, he died in season one and if I remember correctly he remained dead until the midpoint of Disco's second season.

Even if it was always intended for him to come back to life the fact remains that the series played into the Bury Your Gays trope and played it straight for I think close to a year. Over on Lower Decks Mariner ended up in a relationship with her fellow crew mate Jennifer in which we only got one episode of seeing them together as a couple and then they broke up at the end of season 3 and said relationship and breakup was barely talked about in Season 4.

7 of 9 has broken up with Raffi at least twice, Sulu in the Kelvin Timeline is only ever implied to be gay or bi, Chapel I think is only mentioned to be bi and Reno is basically demoted to extra in season 3. In fact I think the only characters in this cover who weren't in anyway screwed over in Trek is Adira who I think remains a major character throughout the rest of Discovery and them identifying as non-binary is stated flat out throughout the series.

And that's not even getting into the rumored Kirk and Spock romantic relationship which might not even be true despite all the Queer Coding around them throughout the series. It has to be stated that the characters are LGBT or it doesn't count.

As CharlesPhipps pointed out in their post on Discovery, that is the show to quote them
no ST show has anywhere near the LGBTA representation and it blew them away all put together. It gave us a happily married couple in space, rare for any show.
Today LGBT is getting more positive representation in shows and even in films with studios even pushing for more queer characters and to be open about it. Games and TV are the most notable examples with films still lagging behind but given that films depend greatly on the box office in China and Russia which are both country's that have the best recent track record when it comes to the treatment of the LGBT I can at least understand that even if I don't approve.

But what bugs me about Trek is that part of the series' message is the equal and fair treatment of all people regardless of race, gender or sexuality. But again, Trek is a series that feels like it's still trapped in the 90's when it comes to LGBT representation.

Disney has honestly been doing more with The Owl House and even some of their movies like Strange World and even Eternals. Sure the latter two aren't the greatest films ever made but the fact that they have gay leads who are open about being gay is commendable. Hell the fact that the company has done nothing to discourage fans from shipping Raya and Namaari or the idea that Elsa might be gay or ace is pretty impressive. Again, not great but it's something.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking this and at the very least Trek has been making progress and we do have more seasons of Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and maybe even other new series like the rumored Star Trek: Legacy coming out so we might get more as time goes on. I'd be open to that and even if it's not the best there's no argument that it is an improvement during the TOS and TNG Era.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Winter wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:07 am So, a few days ago IDW released a one shot comic meant to celebrate LGBT Representation for Pride Month and as such they made a cover for issue that show cased most of the major characters in Mainline Trek that have shown up over the last 50+ years.

Image

So, this kinda bugs me mainly because it doesn't show Jadzia Dax but even if it did that would only bring the total number of characters on the cover to 12... And three of these characters weren't made LGBT until recently and if we count Dax 6 of these characters have either broken up and in 2 died and in Dax's case that was a death that stuck.

It's no secret that Trek has a bad track record when it comes to LGBTAQ+ Representation and while they have improved, more so then Star Wars even now it feels like the series is stuck in the past. Take Culber from Discovery, he died in season one and if I remember correctly he remained dead until the midpoint of Disco's second season.

Even if it was always intended for him to come back to life the fact remains that the series played into the Bury Your Gays trope and played it straight for I think close to a year. Over on Lower Decks Mariner ended up in a relationship with her fellow crew mate Jennifer in which we only got one episode of seeing them together as a couple and then they broke up at the end of season 3 and said relationship and breakup was barely talked about in Season 4.

7 of 9 has broken up with Raffi at least twice, Sulu in the Kelvin Timeline is only ever implied to be gay or bi, Chapel I think is only mentioned to be bi and Reno is basically demoted to extra in season 3. In fact I think the only characters in this cover who weren't in anyway screwed over in Trek is Adira who I think remains a major character throughout the rest of Discovery and them identifying as non-binary is stated flat out throughout the series.

And that's not even getting into the rumored Kirk and Spock romantic relationship which might not even be true despite all the Queer Coding around them throughout the series. It has to be stated that the characters are LGBT or it doesn't count.

As CharlesPhipps pointed out in their post on Discovery, that is the show to quote them
no ST show has anywhere near the LGBTA representation and it blew them away all put together. It gave us a happily married couple in space, rare for any show.
Today LGBT is getting more positive representation in shows and even in films with studios even pushing for more queer characters and to be open about it. Games and TV are the most notable examples with films still lagging behind but given that films depend greatly on the box office in China and Russia which are both country's that have the best recent track record when it comes to the treatment of the LGBT I can at least understand that even if I don't approve.

But what bugs me about Trek is that part of the series' message is the equal and fair treatment of all people regardless of race, gender or sexuality. But again, Trek is a series that feels like it's still trapped in the 90's when it comes to LGBT representation.

Disney has honestly been doing more with The Owl House and even some of their movies like Strange World and even Eternals. Sure the latter two aren't the greatest films ever made but the fact that they have gay leads who are open about being gay is commendable. Hell the fact that the company has done nothing to discourage fans from shipping Raya and Namaari or the idea that Elsa might be gay or ace is pretty impressive. Again, not great but it's something.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking this and at the very least Trek has been making progress and we do have more seasons of Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and maybe even other new series like the rumored Star Trek: Legacy coming out so we might get more as time goes on. I'd be open to that and even if it's not the best there's no argument that it is an improvement during the TOS and TNG Era.
While I agree, I think we have to remember that before Enterprise ended, Star Trek was a late 80's and 90's TV series franchise. It was only really during that time when openly gay main characters was starting to come in. For the most part. I mean it was a big deal when Ellen came out remember.

Nevermind that Berman himself was keeping a clamp down (and people above him) on these stories too. If I recall the writers did attempt it but got shot down or had to rewrite the character.

Obviously there was no way in hell they would attempt that in TOS and I don't see any kind of opening in the TOS movies to present that either unless you make them background characters.

It makes sense only that with Disco Trek that there can now be full representation. Because, we are now at that point where its more socialably acceptable to see that on TV, Berman ain't there, and it's been almost 20 years since Enterprise went off the air. That era of Trek is over.
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Winter
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

Post by Winter »

While I agree, I think we have to remember that before Enterprise ended, Star Trek was a late 80's and 90's TV series franchise. It was only really during that time when openly gay main characters was starting to come in. For the most part. I mean it was a big deal when Ellen came out remember.

Nevermind that Berman himself was keeping a clamp down (and people above him) on these stories too. If I recall the writers did attempt it but got shot down or had to rewrite the character.

Obviously there was no way in hell they would attempt that in TOS and I don't see any kind of opening in the TOS movies to present that either unless you make them background characters.

It makes sense only that with Disco Trek that there can now be full representation. Because, we are now at that point where its more socialably acceptable to see that on TV, Berman ain't there, and it's been almost 20 years since Enterprise went off the air. That era of Trek is over.
[/quote]

What I meant by this was even in this new era it still feels like it's far behind other programs and companies. Just to take on example, take a look at Avatar.

After Korrasami was made canon the series has really embraced the gay side of things with a Graphic Novel Trilogy that's all about Korra and Asami exploring their relationship, the Kyoshi novels have Kyoshi and Rangi and few LGBT characters in Avatar Legends: The Roleplaying Game. Now, whether this strike will continue in the upcoming films and shows is yet to be answered but when Avatar became the first show to have a Same Sex Couple in Western Animation aimed at kids the series didn't shy away from that and instead embraced it. Sure it's not as gay as She-Ra or The Owl House but those are big rainbows to fill.

And that's really what bugs me about recent Trek, sure it's leaps and bounds better then TOS or TNG but at the same time it's rather tame compared to other series. I'm not saying it should go 100% She-Ra but as of right now the series is only taking baby steps when it comes to LGBT inclusion.

Just as an example, of the lead characters we've gotten in recent Trek we've gotten only One is LGBT, Mariner. But the others, all Heterosexual as far as we know and mostly white guys. Not to say that I don't like or even love those characters but it bugs me that the only time we've gotten an female lead who is bi and or gay as a captain in Trek is at the very end of Star Trek: Picard Season 3 with 7 of 9 and it's heavily implied that should Legacy be made the show will mainly focus on Jack Crusher. I like Jack I LOVE Jack but that still means the lead of a Trek series is a white, heterosexual guy.

Again, I love Jack and Season 3 of Picard as a whole and I want Legacy to be made but part of me is a little bitter that 7 of 9, the Captain of the Enterprise G will not be the lead character.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Winter wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:48 amAfter Korrasami was made canon the series has really embraced the gay side of things with a Graphic Novel Trilogy that's all about Korra and Asami exploring their relationship, the Kyoshi novels have Kyoshi and Rangi and few LGBT characters in Avatar Legends: The Roleplaying Game.
That's expanded universe stuff which has always had a lot more free range than stuff that's actually put on screen. If we're giving credit for that then in the late 90's/early 00's Trek books you had one all about the First Contact helmsman (the one played by Damian Darhk from the Arrowverse) being gay, and another one that was basically officially published slashfic that involved a mirror universe version of Seven of Nine getting it on with the Intendent.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Did we ever get any explanation why Seven and Raffi broke up between sessions btw?
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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We did not. =/ That bugged me especially because it served no narrative function I could see.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 2:58 pm We did not. =/ That bugged me especially because it served no narrative function I could see.
The break-up or the relationship?
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 2:58 pm We did not. =/ That bugged me especially because it served no narrative function I could see.
I can explain. Raffi is an awful girlfriend. Seriously, Raffi was just MEAN the whole time to Seven in season 2, but hey, she's mean to EVERYONE! I'm reminded her own family kicked her out for being such a jerk and it was why she was homeless. Raffi is someone who I can't fathom anyone wanting to date at all.

Still not as weird when Seven dated Chakotay.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

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Nobody700 wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:53 pmand it was why she was homeless.
She was? Lemme remind you, that this was the "trailer" she was living in, in a nature reserve within a post-scarcity society...

Image

This is homeless to you?
Last edited by Madner Kami on Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussing Star Trek's Lack of LGBT Representation

Post by Nobody700 »

Madner Kami wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:56 pm
Nobody700 wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:53 pmand it was why she was homeless.
She was?
I mean I say she was homeless but she did have that pretty nice area of land she pretended was bullshit but like... all this land is yours in a Sci Fi utopia with no resource shortage? Sure it's not Picard's place, but damn this is way better than what I have. Much of this comes from me mocking how Raffi ACTS homeless... but lives quite well. Than again, that sums up Raffi in my head of a jerk who ACTS like she's a victim when she totally is the reason her life sucks. Even ignoring what Starfleet did to her.
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