The Sisko - The Commander

[Nealithi]

Also, I have a feeling that Picard's notable ability in The Next Generation has specifically to do with him mind melding with Sarek.

See that to me is a lot more fine. He was already a captain of the flagship long before that, and that was more of being there in the right place at the right time and rising to the occasion.

Which was pretty much exactly the same as Sisko from s1-6.

s7 though makes him Luke Skywalker or any one of a score of generic fantasy protagonists, the one destined by divine birthright to be great, and so he is great, just cause.

Actually Picard becoming the captain of the flagship is the direct opposite of Sisko. As we have discussed right here in this thread, Sisko's rise though the ranks was written as naturally as someone could do in a military like Starfleet.

Picard's wasn't. Large gaps. He was on the Stargazer longer than Enterprise. He created a maneuver to save his crew. What else do we got? What did he di in between the Stargazer and Enterprise.

He was put on trial for losing the Stargazer. . . Then. . . How long was the gap? Because the only thing that makes sense would be flew a desk.

[McAvoy]

Also, I have a feeling that Picard's notable ability in The Next Generation has specifically to do with him mind melding with Sarek.

See that to me is a lot more fine. He was already a captain of the flagship long before that, and that was more of being there in the right place at the right time and rising to the occasion.

Which was pretty much exactly the same as Sisko from s1-6.

s7 though makes him Luke Skywalker or any one of a score of generic fantasy protagonists, the one destined by divine birthright to be great, and so he is great, just cause.

Actually Picard becoming the captain of the flagship is the direct opposite of Sisko. As we have discussed right here in this thread, Sisko's rise though the ranks was written as naturally as someone could do in a military like Starfleet.

Picard's wasn't. Large gaps. He was on the Stargazer longer than Enterprise. He created a maneuver to save his crew. What else do we got? What did he di in between the Stargazer and Enterprise.

He was put on trial for losing the Stargazer. . . Then. . . How long was the gap? Because the only thing that makes sense would be flew a desk.

2355 to 2363/2364. So eight or nine years. Doubt the trial was for that long. That's a long long time for someone to ride a desk. Then somehow getting THE assignment of fleet in getting the latest Enterprise, a brand new Galaxy class ship, the newest premier class of the time.

Most likely. So what did he do? Administrative duties? I mean we don't know at all.

[Deledrius]

It's just boring as far as Starfleet glamorizes ship command over stationary assignments.

In-universe, I don't think we can really support that assertion. That's a bias we have as viewers of a franchise that has focused entirely on ship-based crews, but there's no indication that this is a universally-held opinion. Even with the characters who seem to think so, it's presented as character traits not some societal value.

Add that to the list of why for as brilliant much of s7 is, good lord, does it have so, so, so many flaws tarnishing that brilliance.

Thankfully, it doesn't affect most of the show. Or even season seven. It's just this weird idea that comes in at the start, gets dropped for most of the year, and comes back in the finale. I'm kinda glad they didn't tie it in more, but it also just makes you wonder why they did it at all.

[CharlesPhipps]

In-universe, I don't think we can really support that assertion. That's a bias we have as viewers of a franchise that has focused entirely on ship-based crews, but there's no indication that this is a universally-held opinion. Even with the characters who seem to think so, it's presented as character traits not some societal value.

Ehhh, as far back as THE TROUBLE WITH TROUBLES, Kirk seems to REALLY look down on station commanders.

He was put on trial for losing the Stargazer. . . Then. . . How long was the gap? Because the only thing that makes sense would be flew a desk.

I don't think it's meant to be that long since obviously Wesley Crusher had to know his father and his father died on the Stargazer in an incident before Picard was piloting it.

[McAvoy]

In-universe, I don't think we can really support that assertion. That's a bias we have as viewers of a franchise that has focused entirely on ship-based crews, but there's no indication that this is a universally-held opinion. Even with the characters who seem to think so, it's presented as character traits not some societal value.

Ehhh, as far back as THE TROUBLE WITH TROUBLES, Kirk seems to REALLY look down on station commanders.

He was put on trial for losing the Stargazer. . . Then. . . How long was the gap? Because the only thing that makes sense would be flew a desk.

I don't think it's meant to be that long since obviously Wesley Crusher had to know his father and his father died on the Stargazer in an incident before Picard was piloting it.

Jack Crusher is stated to have died in 2353 a couple of years before Picard lost the Stargazer.

I do wonder if Picard would have ever gotten the Enterprise if he didn't lost the Stargazer in the first place.

[TGLS]

He was put on trial for losing the Stargazer. . . Then. . . How long was the gap? Because the only thing that makes sense would be flew a desk.

Well, according to Memory Alpha and Memory Beta he:
-> Thought about leaving Starfleet
-> Moved around between multiple assignments
-> Guest lectured at the academy
-> Took time off to study for a PhD in Archeology
-> Took command of the USS Portia (a Miranda class ship)
-> Recruited Lt. Data to be his science officer
-> Led a fleet to stop the Manraloth from destroying the federation
-> Met Tasha Yar at a minefield on an unnamed ship (possibly the Portia)*
-> Served as a liaison to the Federation President

*This is the only thing that's definitely Canon.

[CharlesPhipps]

I don't think it's meant to be that long since obviously Wesley Crusher had to know his father and his father died on the Stargazer in an incident before Picard lost it.

Jack Crusher is stated to have died in 2353 a couple of years before Picard lost the Stargazer.

I do wonder if Picard would have ever gotten the Enterprise if he didn't lost the Stargazer in the first place.

I assume that it was a case of, "Here's an incredibly skilled and experienced captain without a ship that we've determined did the right thing in his last ship's loss."

[McAvoy]

I don't think it's meant to be that long since obviously Wesley Crusher had to know his father and his father died on the Stargazer in an incident before Picard lost it.

Jack Crusher is stated to have died in 2353 a couple of years before Picard lost the Stargazer.

I do wonder if Picard would have ever gotten the Enterprise if he didn't lost the Stargazer in the first place.

I assume that it was a case of, "Here's an incredibly skilled and experienced captain without a ship that we've determined did the right thing in his last ship's loss."

Nah. There would be plenty of ships that Picard would have been placed on following the Stargazer. He may have sat a desk for as long as the court martial eoidl have been and maybe a year or two afterwards, but Picard would have been placed on another ship way before the Enterprise-D. The timeframe is just too long for him to ride a desk. He would have needed to be on a shop before Enterprise.

Which comes to anothee point. Season 7 is known as the family season. Everyone has a family related episode it seems. What if, the writers took the time for the final season to actually explore some but not all character's time before TNG.

How did Data test in the Academy for example. He would obviously done 100% academically in the tests. Read something once and he will always know the answer. That seems to be a valid episode proposal IMO.

How did Picard get the Enterprise.

What did Crusher do during season 2 and why did she come back?

Riker and Troi. Was Troi in Starfleet at the time too or afterwards.

Same for Riker for Pegasus.

Not all of them. But I mean anything besides Crusher banging a ghost episode.

[Nobody700]

Not really, as we all know, Starlfeet has 3 ships at all time, and one of them is getting the other out of a blackhole

[McAvoy]

Not really, as we all know, Starlfeet has 3 ships at all time, and one of them is getting the other out of a blackhole

I know you are joking but I do remember pre-Dominion War that the suspicion on the size of Starfleet was either in the high hundreds or low thousand. TNG and early DS9 really give an indication that the fleet was small. A fleet of 20 is big. Fleet destroyed at Wolf 359 is a huge deal to the fleet. Sending I think nine ships to reinforce DS9 in Way of the Warrior is a sizable fleet to take on a large bulk of the Klingon fleet.

The good ole days where seeing a new ship in the series would be months long discussions on said ship. Seeing more than two ships on screen was a treat. Seeing even another Galaxy class ship was nice too.

Seeing a fleet of 20 ships of Cardassian and Romulan ships was a dropping a load in the pants type of reaction, but seeing that fleet being decimated by a fleet of over 100 was a heart attack inducing reaction.

It was all so small scale.