Bright (2017) - A.K.A. ORC COPS, ORC COPS!

[Karha of Honor]

If you pretend the elves are a jew analog it helps the tripe go down

Well, yeah, what else could they be? The Orcs hate the Elves and the Elves look down on the Orcs. Orcs are violent and perceived to put their own law ahead of the laws of society at large. Stereotypical Muslims. The Elves are super rich and perceived to run the world. Stereotypical Jews.

There is even one metion of Orcs caring about religion?

[CharlesPhipps]

There is even one metion of Orcs caring about religion?

They have a religion with the blooding and the temple they try to kill the cops in.

However, the elves being Jews I think doesn't work in the slightest unless you buy into some stereotypes which are prejudiced themselves.

[Karha of Honor]

There is even one metion of Orcs caring about religion?

They have a religion with the blooding and the temple they try to kill the cops in.

However, the elves being Jews I think doesn't work in the slightest unless you buy into some stereotypes which are prejudiced themselves.

That does not sound very Islamic in itself.

[CharlesPhipps]

No, the producers have said orc religion is based on Viking culture.

[Antiboyscout]

Please note the pictures on the 3rd row on the left and 4th row in the middle.

[FakeGeekGirl]

This is why I said it would have been better to see more world-building focused on the orcish culture. We're sitting here debating which real world minority they correlate to instead of, you know, talking about them as an independent fictional entity that might be analagous to a real world group.

There is a very negative comparison to be made to Zootopia here. The predators in Zootopia were obviously representative of minorities and the moral was about why racial prejudice is bad, but it was very clear that it was not supposed to be a 1:1 correlation. Like fans will try to say "oh sheep are the Jews" and things like that but it always falls flat and those interpretations aren't popular. There were some similarities that were explicitly drawn from the real world (Judy complimenting Nick on being articulate and not realizing how patronizing that is) that made the analogy clear, but overall the predators came across as their own thing within the fictional universe.

Now having a more literal analogy is not bad (see Maus for an excellent version of that), but if you do that you have to be really careful. Which I don't think this was considering that if the orcs were supposed to be black or Muslim or whatever else ... so you're saying they're all ugly (all though that's in the eye of the beholder I guess), somewhat animalistic, and have this culture where violence is expected to be a man? Oh ... oh dear.

That could have been softened either way by spending more time with the orc culture (maybe that'll happen with the sequel). Maybe if they are supposed to be black or Muslim or both you could make that even more explicit and then show that the stereotype that they're animalistic and violent is wrong - some might be, but most are good, nonviolent people. Or you could elaborate on the world-building and make them a more distinctly fictional culture.

It kind of flies by but when arguing about when Will Smith got shot, Jakoby says he was getting the burrito for Will Smith because "I don't eat cow flesh." So is he vegetarian? Is that a Jakoby quirk, or are there a lot of orcs who are? That would have been a really funny subversion since orcs in most fiction are man-eaters and it would be funny to have a work where not only were they not but they don't even eat animals, or even for most orcs to be carnivores/omnivores but there is a movement of orcs within that that are vegan or vegetarian, either for the same reason some humans are vegan / vegetarian and/or in protest of the broader culture around them. Or maybe it's something totally alien, like orcs that aren't blooded aren't allowed to eat meat or something. Again, a lot of different routes to go there.

There are a lot of little details in this movie that were interesting (where do the freaking centaurs fall in this orc - human - elf heirarchy?!) and it frustrates me because I think it could have been really unique and had some great world-building and instead it felt like a very underdeveloped world. Missed potential hurts worst of all.

[Karha of Honor]

This is why I said it would have been better to see more world-building focused on the orcish culture. We're sitting here debating which real world minority they correlate to instead of, you know, talking about them as an independent fictional entity that might be analagous to a real world group.

Sounds like the best outcome when dealing with the press today.

[Antiboyscout]

I heard Temeraire was pretty good at this alt-history what if scenario.
Anybody who read the series can you recommend it?

[CharlesPhipps]

This is why I said it would have been better to see more world-building focused on the orcish culture. We're sitting here debating which real world minority they correlate to instead of, you know, talking about them as an independent fictional entity that might be analagous to a real world group.

Yeah, I don't think that actually works because they're meant to be metaphors. It's not the fact orcs are supposed to be Jews, Blacks, Muslims, or so on but they're supposed to have applicable and remind you of X persona. The same for elves and so on. It's not a 1:1 correlation but when the Orc Gangboss said it's not HIM who is bringing violence into the neighborhood but the cops who made it a violent hellhole then it's meant to reference RL claims of police brutality.

There is a very negative comparison to be made to Zootopia here. The predators in Zootopia were obviously representative of minorities and the moral was about why racial prejudice is bad, but it was very clear that it was not supposed to be a 1:1 correlation. Like fans will try to say "oh sheep are the Jews" and things like that but it always falls flat and those interpretations aren't popular.

I think that was why they made some contradictory points so the predators weren't the minorities sometimes and the prey weren't the abusers so they could avoid the connotations mentioned above.

Now having a more literal analogy is not bad (see Maus for an excellent version of that), but if you do that you have to be really careful. Which I don't think this was considering that if the orcs were supposed to be black or Muslim or whatever else ... so you're saying they're all ugly (all though that's in the eye of the beholder I guess), somewhat animalistic, and have this culture where violence is expected to be a man? Oh ... oh dear.

Eh, I think the metaphor opens people to talking about the specifics where they wouldn't normally. One of the most interesting elements someone said about this movie was the fact the Elves are the guys who created the Dark Lord (he was an elf) and clearly had a bunch of fellow elves in the guy's inner circle (Ringwraith equivalents?). However, it's the orcs, who were the common boots on the ground and who were also the race of this universe's version of Jesus who get the worst of it.

Why?

Why no elf racism? Is it because they have Brights? Is it because they're more "traditionally" beautiful? In the case of the orcs, they are their own culture and they aren't accepted on their own terms.

That could have been softened either way by spending more time with the orc culture (maybe that'll happen with the sequel). Maybe if they are supposed to be black or Muslim or both you could make that even more explicit and then show that the stereotype that they're animalistic and violent is wrong - some might be, but most are good, nonviolent people. Or you could elaborate on the world-building and make them a more distinctly fictional culture.

Or maybe they are violent, animalistic people. The thing is, the culture they're opposed to is a vile nest of materialism, corruption, and dishonor. There's an element when discussing racism which often got brought up in my anthropology class that a lot of times the values of other cultures are completely different and you have to deal with them against your own.

Personally, I find what we've seen of elf culture repulsive....and it's just super WASP culture.

There are a lot of little details in this movie that were interesting (where do the freaking centaurs fall in this orc - human - elf heirarchy?!) and it frustrates me because I think it could have been really unique and had some great world-building and instead it felt like a very underdeveloped world. Missed potential hurts worst of all.

I think the movie feels more like a TV series pilot than a movie series.

[FaxModem1]

I'm with Geek Girl, this film felt a bit lazy with how little difference there was between our world and there's. Will Smith making a Shrek joke really took me out of the movie and reminded me that they weren't really going for a well thought out world.