Random Trek thoughts

[hammerofglass]

My favorite weird scale thing is that there was so much inconsistency between how big Klingon Birds of Prey were in effects shots that they eventually gave up and retconned it that they had a ton of ship classes in different roles from fighter to flagship that all look exactly the same.

[Madner Kami]

So... TOS Enterprise and Movie Enterprise. Scale wise they are supposed to be about the same length of a supercarrier. Which is fine except:

If you measure the thickness of both versions of the Enterprise (above the torpedo bay in the movie version) if actually has the thickness of a large automobile.

Take in the thickness of the hull itself plus interior support, you don't get much. In fact that whole area shouldn't even have windows. It would be like a series of decks of storage spaces honestly.

The warp pylons are even worse, but at the same time makes sense. They are much thinner than the neck. Probably only thin enough for the hull, skeleton and then whatever feeds the nscelles and nothing else. Which is fine.

Until an enemy targets them. Especially when we know even with shields up their energy bleed through.

I know it's an old argument. It's just one of those things we have to ignore. Even with the larger sizes of later TOS era Enterprise like the Kelvin Enterprise or the Disco Enterprise (which is smaller than Kelvin but larger than Gene Enterprise), we have to ignore these things. All because of the original Enterprise from the 60's.

I vividly remember games like Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander actually kinda modelling that problem. One of the most effective ways of dispatching with Federation-style ships was, to simply blow off their nacelles or, if applicable, decaptitation at the neck, which was particularly effective in the case of the Constitution Refit, given the Warp Reactor runs through the entire height of the neck, though that was only modelled in Bridge Commander.

[McAvoy]

So... TOS Enterprise and Movie Enterprise. Scale wise they are supposed to be about the same length of a supercarrier. Which is fine except:

If you measure the thickness of both versions of the Enterprise (above the torpedo bay in the movie version) if actually has the thickness of a large automobile.

Take in the thickness of the hull itself plus interior support, you don't get much. In fact that whole area shouldn't even have windows. It would be like a series of decks of storage spaces honestly.

The warp pylons are even worse, but at the same time makes sense. They are much thinner than the neck. Probably only thin enough for the hull, skeleton and then whatever feeds the nscelles and nothing else. Which is fine.

Until an enemy targets them. Especially when we know even with shields up their energy bleed through.

I know it's an old argument. It's just one of those things we have to ignore. Even with the larger sizes of later TOS era Enterprise like the Kelvin Enterprise or the Disco Enterprise (which is smaller than Kelvin but larger than Gene Enterprise), we have to ignore these things. All because of the original Enterprise from the 60's.

I vividly remember games like Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander actually kinda modelling that problem. One of the most effective ways of dispatching with Federation-style ships was, to simply blow off their nacelles or, if applicable, decaptitation at the neck, which was particularly effective in the case of the Constitution Refit, given the Warp Reactor runs through the entire height of the neck, though that was only modelled in Bridge Commander.

Its just one of those things we just simply accept. Warp pylons and the neck are obvious weak points. One torpedo should do it. I would say the phasers from the Reliant didn't penetrate enough IMO if it hit the neck above torpedo launchers. Who knows maybe 23rd weapons technology wasn't there to completely severe the pylons or neck. You could add that to the armor versus weapons argument.

[clearspira]

So... TOS Enterprise and Movie Enterprise. Scale wise they are supposed to be about the same length of a supercarrier. Which is fine except:

If you measure the thickness of both versions of the Enterprise (above the torpedo bay in the movie version) if actually has the thickness of a large automobile.

Take in the thickness of the hull itself plus interior support, you don't get much. In fact that whole area shouldn't even have windows. It would be like a series of decks of storage spaces honestly.

The warp pylons are even worse, but at the same time makes sense. They are much thinner than the neck. Probably only thin enough for the hull, skeleton and then whatever feeds the nscelles and nothing else. Which is fine.

Until an enemy targets them. Especially when we know even with shields up their energy bleed through.

I know it's an old argument. It's just one of those things we have to ignore. Even with the larger sizes of later TOS era Enterprise like the Kelvin Enterprise or the Disco Enterprise (which is smaller than Kelvin but larger than Gene Enterprise), we have to ignore these things. All because of the original Enterprise from the 60's.

I vividly remember games like Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander actually kinda modelling that problem. One of the most effective ways of dispatching with Federation-style ships was, to simply blow off their nacelles or, if applicable, decaptitation at the neck, which was particularly effective in the case of the Constitution Refit, given the Warp Reactor runs through the entire height of the neck, though that was only modelled in Bridge Commander.

Its just one of those things we just simply accept. Warp pylons and the neck are obvious weak points. One torpedo should do it. I would say the phasers from the Reliant didn't penetrate enough IMO if it hit the neck above torpedo launchers. Who knows maybe 23rd weapons technology wasn't there to completely severe the pylons or neck. You could add that to the armor versus weapons argument.

Ironically that is exactly what happens in Star Trek Beyond.

Say what you like about Voyager - but imo that is the best starship design to date barring the Defiant. No neck, small nacelle pylons, full phaser and torpedo coverage. Pity it was let down by the fact that it could catch a cold.

That though leads to today's random Trek thought: The bridge. What is the point of it? Up until the Kelvin and Disco continuity there was no window on it. It is in an insanely vulnerable position. And that includes the Defiant which is actually a warship meant to fight the Borg, not a cruise ship like the ''D''.

[Nobody700]

My best guess is that is where all the power and computation power... but than you realize the TOS Enterprise has the problem that the engine room IS the actual power. Normally when I say that, I mean in how everything goes or even political... rarely literal. Who knows if that's still a problem.

[Nobody700]

So I never threw in my own random Trek thought here, and while I made my thoughts that everyone but 5 are officers, here's another problem I have with the Federation. Doctors.

In TOS, they have TWO doctors, and several nurses. I say that's pretty small but probably how it works, and who knows if a reserve doctor doesn't exist. On TNG... well, who knows. We have one doctor and a bunch of other nurses, MAYBE others exist... perhaps a civilian doctor exists but I doubt it. Voyager... I will let pass, perfect explanation. Lower Decks, pretty small crew, two doctors, nurses, feels right. Than we come to the wild ones. DS9, the full on way station, nothing works here, full on garbage till halfway the show... FULL ON MEDICAL STAFF. Yes, because we have ONE engineer and his assistants, but have EVERYTHING FOR MEDICAL! Holy god, the competency is WEIRD. Than, Enterprise. ONE DOCTOR. NO NURSES. WHAT?! Even for a crew that small, one doctor for so many men and women in active threat situations is INSANE! Lastly, we come to Strange New Worlds. Oh sure, we have what seems to be a full medical team... but given the doctor and head nurse have a bunch of secret drugs and a whole ass girl hidden, excuse me, WHAT?! Discovery... I wonder why they had a doctor given we never saw them do anything. Ever.

[CharlesPhipps]

"You must construct additional pylons."

[clearspira]

So I never threw in my own random Trek thought here, and while I made my thoughts that everyone but 5 are officers, here's another problem I have with the Federation. Doctors.

In TOS, they have TWO doctors, and several nurses. I say that's pretty small but probably how it works, and who knows if a reserve doctor doesn't exist. On TNG... well, who knows. We have one doctor and a bunch of other nurses, MAYBE others exist... perhaps a civilian doctor exists but I doubt it. Voyager... I will let pass, perfect explanation. Lower Decks, pretty small crew, two doctors, nurses, feels right. Than we come to the wild ones. DS9, the full on way station, nothing works here, full on garbage till halfway the show... FULL ON MEDICAL STAFF. Yes, because we have ONE engineer and his assistants, but have EVERYTHING FOR MEDICAL! Holy god, the competency is WEIRD. Than, Enterprise. ONE DOCTOR. NO NURSES. WHAT?! Even for a crew that small, one doctor for so many men and women in active threat situations is INSANE! Lastly, we come to Strange New Worlds. Oh sure, we have what seems to be a full medical team... but given the doctor and head nurse have a bunch of secret drugs and a whole ass girl hidden, excuse me, WHAT?! Discovery... I wonder why they had a doctor given we never saw them do anything. Ever.

So here is the interesting thing about the Enterprise-D: It actually has three sickbays. Two in the saucer, one in the stardrive. I'm certain that we never see them because there is only one sickbay set. It also has 20 transporter rooms which makes ''transporters off-line Captain'' both hilarious and ridiculous. But anyway, that implies that there must be a sizeable medical staff that we do not actually see.

The Enterprise-E has two sickbays. Although interestingly we do actually see them this time. One in First Contact that is obviously the Voyager set, and one in Nemesis.

Judging by the uniforms, I think most Bashir's huge medical staff is actually Bajoran affiliated which makes sense.

The NX-01 really does seem to be just Phlox. It is a very deserved running joke of Chuck's. I mean, you can perhaps make an argument for it in early season 1 but imo the ''we rushed out of spacedock'' excuse wore thin very quickly. If I was Admiral Forrest, I would be like ''good work on returning that Klingon and dealing with the Suliban. Now turn your ship around so we can actually finish it. I mean - ha! - only a fool would want to fly around without his phase cannons fitted and only one doctor.''

[McAvoy]

My favorite weird scale thing is that there was so much inconsistency between how big Klingon Birds of Prey were in effects shots that they eventually gave up and retconned it that they had a ton of ship classes in different roles from fighter to flagship that all look exactly the same.

Yeah.

I just go by the idea there are only two. B'Rel and K'Vort classes. Everything else is a forced perspective. In fact in the episode of The Defector where we saw the infamous giant BoPs where they are estimated to be like 650 meters, someone did use fan made CGI models to show that they could in fact be just regular K'Vort class ships.

[McAvoy]

So... TOS Enterprise and Movie Enterprise. Scale wise they are supposed to be about the same length of a supercarrier. Which is fine except:

If you measure the thickness of both versions of the Enterprise (above the torpedo bay in the movie version) if actually has the thickness of a large automobile.

Take in the thickness of the hull itself plus interior support, you don't get much. In fact that whole area shouldn't even have windows. It would be like a series of decks of storage spaces honestly.

The warp pylons are even worse, but at the same time makes sense. They are much thinner than the neck. Probably only thin enough for the hull, skeleton and then whatever feeds the nscelles and nothing else. Which is fine.

Until an enemy targets them. Especially when we know even with shields up their energy bleed through.

I know it's an old argument. It's just one of those things we have to ignore. Even with the larger sizes of later TOS era Enterprise like the Kelvin Enterprise or the Disco Enterprise (which is smaller than Kelvin but larger than Gene Enterprise), we have to ignore these things. All because of the original Enterprise from the 60's.

I vividly remember games like Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy and Bridge Commander actually kinda modelling that problem. One of the most effective ways of dispatching with Federation-style ships was, to simply blow off their nacelles or, if applicable, decaptitation at the neck, which was particularly effective in the case of the Constitution Refit, given the Warp Reactor runs through the entire height of the neck, though that was only modelled in Bridge Commander.

Its just one of those things we just simply accept. Warp pylons and the neck are obvious weak points. One torpedo should do it. I would say the phasers from the Reliant didn't penetrate enough IMO if it hit the neck above torpedo launchers. Who knows maybe 23rd weapons technology wasn't there to completely severe the pylons or neck. You could add that to the armor versus weapons argument.

Ironically that is exactly what happens in Star Trek Beyond.

Say what you like about Voyager - but imo that is the best starship design to date barring the Defiant. No neck, small nacelle pylons, full phaser and torpedo coverage. Pity it was let down by the fact that it could catch a cold.

That though leads to today's random Trek thought: The bridge. What is the point of it? Up until the Kelvin and Disco continuity there was no window on it. It is in an insanely vulnerable position. And that includes the Defiant which is actually a warship meant to fight the Borg, not a cruise ship like the ''D''.

The bridge argument is a very old one. If anything the bridge should be in the middle of the saucer decks down. Gene said the bridge should be on the very top of the ship. So it's been asked for many decades now.

The only argument I could make is that Starfleet made their bridges modular. They can be popped off and replaced with a new one. Doesn't make too much sense but that's the best I got.

We did see twice what happens when the bridge is damaged, first with Voyager in Year of Hell and Nemesis. Both of which don't seem to be any more protected than the rest of the ship. Like maybe, there could have been a secondary shield covering the bridge powered with a secondary power source or something separate from the rest of the ship. Doesn't seem like it.