Black Panther Film

[CharlesPhipps]

Perhaps being too generous but I think Killmonger's character became unhinged because he utterly moved out of his comfort zone once he "won." He was fully capable of taking the throne but utterly unskilled and unprepared for any kind of ruling. The situation also got worse because Killmonger's perspective is utterly alien.

"You could have intervened in the slave trade, imperialism, and genocides! Our people died by the millions!"
"No Wakandans died."

Which just deflates anything he has argument wise as the people there simply don't care. He's as alone and vilified in Wakanda as he is in America. He was looking for a home and found none.

It's part of why he burns the tree because, well, he doesn't respect Wakanda or its traditions.

[SabreMau]

That he doesn't respect them makes sense, but that nearly the entire army doesn't either seemed off. Once T'Challa showed up, everyone should have instantly realized that the challenge didn't finish and that he was still the rightful king. Instead, that guy and every single soldier under his command was like, "Eh, we all came up here anyway, might as well go kill T'Challa now." And then every single one of the lady guards waited several seconds for them to run off into the field, and THEN took action to go chase after them while just four stayed back with Killmonger.

Just didn't feel the big mini-civil-war brawl made sense, and we also knew right away that "We will not help you." was going to flip into "We changed our minds offscreen for some reason, we're helping you" considering a scene of the leader standing on the rock was in many of the trailers.

[GloatingSwine]

That he doesn't respect them makes sense, but that nearly the entire army doesn't either seemed off. Once T'Challa showed up, everyone should have instantly realized that the challenge didn't finish and that he was still the rightful king. Instead, that guy and every single soldier under his command was like, "Eh, we all came up here anyway, might as well go kill T'Challa now."

W'kabi had watched T'challa fail to capture or kill Klaue, who had killed his family in his Vibranium theft, and then seen Killmonger succeed. He was also quite ready and willing to spread Wakanda's influence, using force if necessary.

It wasn't about traditions or the challenge, Killmonger had earned a measure of personal loyalty from him and the border tribe.

In Doctor Strange it was often annoying (with the exception of Mikkelsen's character), and made the title character more obnoxious instead of more likable. It was like they were trying to make Strange into another Tony Stark, and it backfired.

Strange is supposed to be obnoxious. Star Lord's dad isn't the only ego the size of a planet in the MCU....

[cilantro]

That he doesn't respect them makes sense, but that nearly the entire army doesn't either seemed off. Once T'Challa showed up, everyone should have instantly realized that the challenge didn't finish and that he was still the rightful king. Instead, that guy and every single soldier under his command was like, "Eh, we all came up here anyway, might as well go kill T'Challa now." And then every single one of the lady guards waited several seconds for them to run off into the field, and THEN took action to go chase after them while just four stayed back with Killmonger.

Just didn't feel the big mini-civil-war brawl made sense, and we also knew right away that "We will not help you." was going to flip into "We changed our minds offscreen for some reason, we're helping you" considering a scene of the leader standing on the rock was in many of the trailers.

Technically speaking even if T'Challa showed up alive at the end doesn't somehow mean that Killmonger's challenge wasn't done. We still had the opening where T'Challa spared M'Baku's life and T'Challa was still (the winner) and also the king during this time. Pretty much by that time the kingdom was split between people who supported T'Challa and those who supported Killmonger. Overall, it was most likely the policy of Killmonger wanting to go out and spread chaos in the world, using Wakanda technology/weapons/spy cells, throughout the world that made the royal guard go, "fuck this guy has to be stopped" but there were enough people that thought that Killmonger had some good points to be made about the state of the world and how Wakanda can change things.

[cilantro]

They've definitely gotten more and more set into a formula groove with time, but the style/substance ratio seems to vary randomly. When I think about the ones that have more substance vs less, the distribution is more random than chronologically weighted one way or another. The level of style varies randomly as well.

The formula aspects, however, definitely feel like a chair cushion getting gradually molded to a very specific ass with increasing depth and definition with each sit.

I agree about the forced humor. Age of Ultron was the one that really pushed it over for me. I do like Joss Whedon's style of humor, but he does have a tendency to write every character with the same "voice" when it comes to the humor, and in AoU he was pushing the "talking is a free action" thing waaaaayyyy to far to the point where it was seriously messing with the pacing and making the aforementioned "voice" issue way more more glaring than usual.

In GoG the density of humor makes sense. In Ant Man, the humor makes sense for that specific character, but not if everyone else is doing the same. In a lot of others though, it kinda doesn't always work. In Doctor Strange it was often annoying (with the exception of Mikkelsen's character), and made the title character more obnoxious instead of more likable. It was like they were trying to make Strange into another Tony Stark, and it backfired.

Oh, I blame Joss Whedon with the increasing amount of humor that is being forced upon the MCU. Since The Avengers was such a hit it seems that every film had to follow in the style of Whedon (and it also didn't help that he was supposed to be the "architect" for Phase 2 and beyond either) and it just seems like they really need a course correction, right now, IMO. GotG Vol 1 was actually good and it's one of my favorite MCU films but GotG Vol 2, I didn't like for various reasons. Like I didn't like how they changed Peter's father from J'ason of Sparta to Ego (both are aliens but one is actually not a planet) and also making Ego a Celestial. Personally, I would've enjoyed it if they left out the Celestial part and just left Ego's origins in the dark. I also don't like how they have downplayed their magic, mystical, supernatural stuff either. Asgards are literally gods from another dimension and the 9 Realms are actually 9 different dimensions with Asgard being a pocket dimension in the comics. By making them aliens and the 9 Realms into 9 different planets it just doesn't feel right nor does it explain anything but leaves more questions that they are clearly not bothering to answer anytime soon.

As with the humor from in Dr. Strange, all I can say was that there was a story that Marvel Studios (the ones who actually make the movies and not the TV shows) had Dan Harmon come in and insert jokes into the scripts (I think that correct term would be "punch up the script") and that was why a lot of the humor was so forced, IMO.

[SabreMau]

Technically speaking even if T'Challa showed up alive at the end doesn't somehow mean that Killmonger's challenge wasn't done. We still had the opening where T'Challa spared M'Baku's life and T'Challa was still (the winner) and also the king during this time. Pretty much by that time the kingdom was split between people who supported T'Challa and those who supported Killmonger. Overall, it was most likely the policy of Killmonger wanting to go out and spread chaos in the world, using Wakanda technology/weapons/spy cells, throughout the world that made the royal guard go, "fuck this guy has to be stopped" but there were enough people that thought that Killmonger had some good points to be made about the state of the world and how Wakanda can change things.

The rules of the challenge were stated a few different times through the film, it only ends either when one gets killed by the other or when one yields to the other. M'Baku yielded by tapping out, so that challenge had a conclusive ending. T'Challa reminds Killmonger that he did neither, Okoye points out to W'Kabi that he's right, the challenge didn't properly finish, and W'Kabi goes ahead with ignoring both them anyway.

Besides, if the kingdom is that split, and they have that many people tired of centuries of tradition and isolation ready to rush out into the world and fight outsiders, then they've probably got bigger problems than they thought by the time of the end of the film.

[cilantro]

Technically speaking even if T'Challa showed up alive at the end doesn't somehow mean that Killmonger's challenge wasn't done. We still had the opening where T'Challa spared M'Baku's life and T'Challa was still (the winner) and also the king during this time. Pretty much by that time the kingdom was split between people who supported T'Challa and those who supported Killmonger. Overall, it was most likely the policy of Killmonger wanting to go out and spread chaos in the world, using Wakanda technology/weapons/spy cells, throughout the world that made the royal guard go, "fuck this guy has to be stopped" but there were enough people that thought that Killmonger had some good points to be made about the state of the world and how Wakanda can change things.

The rules of the challenge were stated a few different times through the film, it only ends either when one gets killed by the other or when one yields to the other. M'Baku yielded by tapping out, so that challenge had a conclusive ending. T'Challa reminds Killmonger that he did neither, Okoye points out to W'Kabi that he's right, the challenge didn't properly finish, and W'Kabi goes ahead with ignoring both them anyway.

That sounds like a fair explanation and I will take it. You have won this conversation.

Besides, if the kingdom is that split, and they have that many people tired of centuries of tradition and isolation ready to rush out into the world and fight outsiders, then they've probably got bigger problems than they thought by the time of the end of the film.

I think that was the point of seeing that battle. It was just tension rising to the surface and everyone letting it go. Not to mention that people like W'Kabi have to pretend that they are poor 3rd World citizens/"Wakandain Amish" (okay I have been thinking that they were more like the Genii from SGA) while a person like T'Challa gets to live in a futuristic city.

[phantom000]

It always annoys me when the heroes are agonizing over a dilemma and yet the solution is starring them in the face.

"We can't bring him to Wakanda, we cannot allow an outsider to learn the truth of our nation" then put him under you moron! Sedate him, heal his wounds, then take him back. He will wake up in a Korean hospital, perfectly safe, with no idea of what happened. If he asks about what happened T'Challa could just say they saved him with Wakandan folk medicine or something. Why couldn't you do that?

You could still have him learn of Wakanda because when Killmonger takes over Shuri has to wake him up so that they can move him to safety.

One question i have though is where did Stark get the vibranium to make Captain America's shield? It raises some interesting questions when you remember that Stark tells Rogers 'you are holding the world's supply.'

[ORCACommander]

the leader of the border guard tribe probly could a been neutralized from rebelling with the simple explanation of: You want to know how we failed to capture crazy irishman? He blew through a wall and stole him from us while we were interrogating him!

But ya feels like MCU is falling into a rut with its film formula and over all plots. The movies are feeling like lightly strung together action scenes.

[cilantro]

the leader of the border guard tribe probly could a been neutralized from rebelling with the simple explanation of: You want to know how we failed to capture crazy irishman? He blew through a wall and stole him from us while we were interrogating him!

But ya feels like MCU is falling into a rut with its film formula and over all plots. The movies are feeling like lightly strung together action scenes.

I thought that Klaue was South African?