Should we defund ICE?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

https://gizmodo.com/americas-detention- ... 1826944008

Americas detention centers have been added to wikipedia's list of Concentration Camps.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

https://crooksandliars.com/2018/06/msnb ... -see-girls

"HHS won't let us see the girls"

I'll leave you to imagine why this is, and what is happening to detained immigrant female children.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

"WASHINGTON — The former head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told NBC News that migrant parents separated from their children at the border are sometimes unable to relocate their child and remain permanently separated. "Permanent separation. It happens," said John Sandweg, who served as acting director of ICE under the Obama administration from 2013-2014. While a parent can quickly move from detention to deportation, a child's case for asylum or deportation may not be heard by a judge for several years because deporting a child is a lower priority for the courts, Sandweg explained. "You could easily end up in a situation where the gap between a parent's deportation and a child's deportation is years," Sandweg said.

As a result, parents may find themselves back in their home countries struggling to find their children. Many do not have access to legal counsel or understand the U.S. immigration or judicial systems. Children who stay in the foster system for lengthy periods of time may become wards of the state and finally adopted."

This is what we mean by "tearing families apart". Sure, the prison system technically separates families, in that it will lock away a father or mother from their children, but...prisons have visiting hours. There's usually another family member who can keep in touch and raise the child.

Instead, they lock up the parents, they lock up the children, and they separate the parents from the children with no plan to ever get them together again should the situation be resolved.

[Darth Wedgius]

"WASHINGTON — The former head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told NBC News that migrant parents separated from their children at the border are sometimes unable to relocate their child and remain permanently separated. "Permanent separation. It happens," said John Sandweg, who served as acting director of ICE under the Obama administration from 2013-2014. While a parent can quickly move from detention to deportation, a child's case for asylum or deportation may not be heard by a judge for several years because deporting a child is a lower priority for the courts, Sandweg explained. "You could easily end up in a situation where the gap between a parent's deportation and a child's deportation is years," Sandweg said.

As a result, parents may find themselves back in their home countries struggling to find their children. Many do not have access to legal counsel or understand the U.S. immigration or judicial systems. Children who stay in the foster system for lengthy periods of time may become wards of the state and finally adopted."

This is what we mean by "tearing families apart". Sure, the prison system technically separates families, in that it will lock away a father or mother from their children, but...prisons have visiting hours. There's usually another family member who can keep in touch and raise the child.

Instead, they lock up the parents, they lock up the children, and they separate the parents from the children with no plan to ever get them together again should the situation be resolved.

Actually, the children have to be placed with other family members if possible. And I'd certainly be OK with the children being deported along with the adults, but federal consent decrees and and 9th circuit court decision are in the way.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

How do you expect a four year old who only knows his father is named "papa" to ever be reunited with his dad?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

My core is...even law-breakers still have rights. That's part of the process. When you're arrested, you don't lose all your rights. The way ICE treats the people in their custody is not humane. The way they go about their business is not in accordance with the rule of law.

THAT is the crux of the issue. THAT is what we are protesting over.

[Darth Wedgius]

How do you expect a four year old who only knows his father is named "papa" to ever be reunited with his dad?

They hopefully fingerprint them both, and ICE will know the purported name of the father.

[Darth Wedgius]

My core is...even law-breakers still have rights. That's part of the process. When you're arrested, you don't lose all your rights. The way ICE treats the people in their custody is not humane. The way they go about their business is not in accordance with the rule of law.

THAT is the crux of the issue. THAT is what we are protesting over.

You say that the way ICE treats people in custody is not humane. As far as I know, their conditions are similar to conditions in any prison.

[Mercury01]

I have some sympathy for the idea that illegal aliens will do work that Americans won't, but if those jobs paid better then I suspect more Americans would do them. That could mean higher prices here and there, but higher wages for unskilled labor as well, something I'd like to see more of.

Then companies would simply export their labour/business to places that had lower wages. Or cut staff to the bare minimum. Or use lower-grade materials or cut back on safety regulations, or anything to keep profits flowing. This is end-stage capitalism we're talking about here. It's not going to get any better.

You say that the way ICE treats people in custody is not humane. As far as I know, their conditions are similar to conditions in any prison.

...Which is not humane.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

My core is...even law-breakers still have rights. That's part of the process. When you're arrested, you don't lose all your rights. The way ICE treats the people in their custody is not humane. The way they go about their business is not in accordance with the rule of law.

THAT is the crux of the issue. THAT is what we are protesting over.

You say that the way ICE treats people in custody is not humane. As far as I know, their conditions are similar to conditions in any prison.

This is the issue.
When a judge sends you to prison for a crime, they say "you will serve one week in prison" or "you will stay five years in prison" or "you have a life sentence in prison."

When ICE gets somebody, they say "You will stay in this cage as long as we want you to, and if you don't sign this you might never be able to find your child again."

There is a due process involved in the prosecution of crime. ICE has no due process. ICE has powers above and beyond what is needed, and above and beyond what would be acceptable under the Rule of Law.