Should Kathleen Kennedy be let go from the Star Wars megaproject?

[Admiral X]

You can't get around what the man actually said. This is what he said in response to criticism of TLJ.

[unknownsample]

You can't get around what the man actually said. This is what he said in response to criticism of TLJ.

Try reading what he actually said.

The goal is never to divide or make people upset, but I do think the conversations that are happening were going to have to happen at some point if sw is going to grow, move forward and stay vital.

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/ ... 08?lang=en

[Admiral X]

If he said that then he contradicted himself.

[Madner Kami]

If he said that then he contradicted himself.

Nononononono, you got the wrong. He's just suberverting your expectations.

[unknownsample]

If he said that then he contradicted himself.

Got any evidence to back that claim up?

[Admiral X]

If he said that then he contradicted himself.

Got any evidence to back that claim up?

Yeah, in the film he wrote, he literally used Kylo as his mouthpiece.

And then there's this.

[unknownsample]

If he said that then he contradicted himself.

Got any evidence to back that claim up?

Yeah, in the film he wrote, he literally used Kylo as his mouthpiece.

And then there's this.

As I recall Kylo's mantra was let the past die, not let's divide people and you do realise that clip was from 15 years ago and has nothing to do with TLJ right?

[Admiral X]

Kylo's mantra was a provocation and very clearly illustrated the director's attitude toward the fans of the original trilogy, just as he also displayed contempt toward fans of TFA by crapping all over all of their theories. And while that clip may be old, it definitely fits within the context of TLJ and how pleased with himself that fans are so divided on his film.

[GandALF]

Kylo's mantra was a provocation and very clearly illustrated the director's attitude toward the fans of the original trilogy

No it isn't, Luke's confrontation with Kylo is a refutation that mantra. He tells him that he'll always be with him if he strikes him down, he also keeps the projection of Han's dice around even after he "dies" just long enough for Kylo to find it.

The whole message of film is that you can't kill the past

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

It's just speculation, but I definitely think Rian Johnson took some pleasure (initially at least) in doing the opposite of what fans wanted. I don't think pissing people off was an active goal, but in almost every single instance RJ turned left where people were expecting him to turn right. Subversion was the name of the game. "This is not going to go the way you think" is definitely a meta-message, and its one of the reasons critics loved it.

Kylo's mantra was a provocation and very clearly illustrated the director's attitude toward the fans of the original trilogy, just as he also displayed contempt toward fans of TFA by crapping all over all of their theories. And while that clip may be old, it definitely fits within the context of TLJ and how pleased with himself that fans are so divided on his film.

I believe Rian Johnson has stated as much after the fact, but Kylo Ren is definitely meant to be wrong. So is Luke. They both believe that the past should be killed/die, but they're both shown to be incorrect. The message of the movie is what Yoda says to Luke and what Luke says at the very end of the movie- don't dwell on the past, but learn from it and build off it. Despite not liking the movie, I'm with the defenders in their interpretation of the film.

With that said, I definitely think there were problems with the execution of that theme that left the message unclear and ineffectual. Probably didn't help that Kylo's "Let the past die" line became one of the big taglines for the movie.

I think the lack of respect for Luke also obscured the intended message. The message is supposed to be learn from the past, but what does Rey learn from Luke? Pretty much nothing, except how not to act. If anything he was an active hindrance to her. All he did for her was give her crappy advice that turned out to be wrong in the end, so any sense of kinship shown between the two really rings false. The "build on the past" message falls flat because he was never Rey's master, she never showed the need for any training and has more heart than any of the OT dinosaurs, and she surpasses every obstacle all on her own.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get with the ageist attitude of Rian Johnson and the powers that be with Lucasfilm. I get that its necessary to bring in new characters, and nobody who wants new movies wants to dwell on the OT forever. But the movie acts like early 50s (Luke's supposed age) is too old to make any contribution whatsoever other than to be a figurehead. As I already said, Luke doesn't even get to be a source of wisdom, since Rey clearly has a better perspective than he does in this movie. Even Leia points to Poe as the real leader of the Alliance.