Star Trek (DIS): Despite Yourself

[Worffan101]

Does anyone on here like Discovery?

I don't, but it had a lot of potential, the problem is it wastes it.

I actually LOATHE Frain's performance as Sarek, he has a weirdly off-putting robotic take on the character that just...really made me hate him the moment he opened his mouth. Also, he was associated with that horrible idea of Burnham being a racist and being proven right about it--it's POSSIBLE to have a hero who's racist, but you have to prove them wrong at every opportunity and have them learn and grow as they go along, not prove them right as the Klingons are written like '40s propaganda caricatures of the Japanese.

On the flip side, having the Captain be Mirror actually has a lot of potential. The problem is they went for the LAZIEST way to develop that reveal, AND tried to make us sympathize with Mirror!Georgiou while also making her a cartoonishly evil cannibal. Stuff like that is why I goddamn hate this show.

And as for STD not being diverse enough--again, it's 2018, where's the trans character? This show should be pushing the envelope, not fridging gay characters and focusing on a boring as Hell het romance. At LEAST one trans character is basically mandatory, even the CW is putting a trans character (played by a trans actress, no less) on one of their shows and the CW is the epitome of safe and mainstream. And did I mention The Fridgening? They fridged one of the gay guys. There's a really great article I've read that talks about why that's a problem: https://geekdad.com/2018/01/star-trek-d ... -10-recap/

It's like...they did a bunch of stereotypes, then said "We're very progressive because we allowed teh gayz on our show, now love us, damn it! If you don't love us, you're a Nazi like the creepy evil bisexual Empress!" (which, also, that's something that really should've been kept out, they can make the Mirror Empress evil without making her a creepy pseudo-incestuous creep)

But yeah. War plot? DS9 did that and it was great. Klingon villains? Oh, hi, some of the most popular TOS episodes! Main character hates a particular species for personal reasons? I remember when O'Brien was a suspect because of his beef with the Cardies. Mirror Universe? Enterprise of all shows did great with that, by having the Captain just play Regular Archer and putting him in a mirror uniform. None of this is particularly new, it's just that it's done really badly here.

[MrL1992]

There are Nazis who like Star Wars.

Which is almost as weird as being a Nazi who likes Wolfenstein.

It's a franchise about killing Space Nazis.

So I'm not surprised.

I won't name names or channels but one guy will sing the praises of DS9, the show with only one Caucasian main crew member, yet mockingly refers to Discovery as 'Star Trek Diversity'. Would love to know his rationalisation.

[MrL1992]

Does anyone on here like Discovery?

Me, Linkara and a few other YouTube people... And a couple of friends of mine.

Definitely has problems to work through and I hope season 2 can win some over. We'll see, if no Trek fan ever gave a show another chance after 1 season then there would be a whole lot less of us.

[Zoinksberg]

Might I just say, I HATE the Terran Empire emblem this show created.

First, instead of a simple sword behind or through the Earth you have the upside down Delta Shield. Because SYMBOLISM!

Most egregious of all is the reversed globe that even spins clockwise. You know, because IT'S MIRROR! It's so ham fisted and nonsensical, you just know the designers were so proud of themselves for creating such a clever emblem.

[CharlesPhipps]

I can summarize Star Trek Discovery's problem in one sentence: Dear Lord, this show is trying way too fucking hard.

Yes, we can say fucking now. Tilly can.

Basically, the Orville is a show I'm not very fond of but summarizes the show wasted a hundred or two hundred million more dollars than they had to. All people really wanted was a show in space and Discovery throws everything at the wall in hopes of something sticking.

The Klingon War, Mirror Universe, Treason, Mudd the terrorist, time travel, and the universe jumping warp drive! Everyone is a traitor! EVERYONE!

I think the scariest thing the showrunners might face is people would have been fine with them flying around the galaxy exploring shit.

Edit:

Here's a crazy reimagining of Discovery:

Michael Burnham is a human girl whose parents were parents were killed on Vulcan and she was fostered by Sarek years after Spock left while she sponsored him to the academy. She's science officer on the Discovery under Georgiou and up for promotion when they encounter a terrorist organization headed by bumpy-forehead Klingon T'Kuvma and his pack of loyalists. No treason occurs or deaths (or maybe Georgiou does die and Lorca is the captain). They have a bunch of spiffy adventures with us getting to know each of the crew.

Oh and the ship loses its blue filter and has actual lightning.

[clearspira]

Yes, we can say fucking now. Tilly can.

Y'know, something else strikes me about this show: it is Enterprise ''we are more adult which is why we are going to act more childish'' syndrome on steroids.

Enterprise thought they were all big and adult with the decon chamber, and STD thinks they are all big and adult by saying fuck all the time. Oh, and the sex. Can't be big and adult without boobies.

[clearspira]

Does anyone on here like Discovery?

I don't, but it had a lot of potential, the problem is it wastes it.

I actually LOATHE Frain's performance as Sarek, he has a weirdly off-putting robotic take on the character that just...really made me hate him the moment he opened his mouth. Also, he was associated with that horrible idea of Burnham being a racist and being proven right about it--it's POSSIBLE to have a hero who's racist, but you have to prove them wrong at every opportunity and have them learn and grow as they go along, not prove them right as the Klingons are written like '40s propaganda caricatures of the Japanese.

On the flip side, having the Captain be Mirror actually has a lot of potential. The problem is they went for the LAZIEST way to develop that reveal, AND tried to make us sympathize with Mirror!Georgiou while also making her a cartoonishly evil cannibal. Stuff like that is why I goddamn hate this show.

And as for STD not being diverse enough--again, it's 2018, where's the trans character? This show should be pushing the envelope, not fridging gay characters and focusing on a boring as Hell het romance. At LEAST one trans character is basically mandatory, even the CW is putting a trans character (played by a trans actress, no less) on one of their shows and the CW is the epitome of safe and mainstream. And did I mention The Fridgening? They fridged one of the gay guys. There's a really great article I've read that talks about why that's a problem: https://geekdad.com/2018/01/star-trek-d ... -10-recap/

It's like...they did a bunch of stereotypes, then said "We're very progressive because we allowed teh gayz on our show, now love us, damn it! If you don't love us, you're a Nazi like the creepy evil bisexual Empress!" (which, also, that's something that really should've been kept out, they can make the Mirror Empress evil without making her a creepy pseudo-incestuous creep)

But yeah. War plot? DS9 did that and it was great. Klingon villains? Oh, hi, some of the most popular TOS episodes! Main character hates a particular species for personal reasons? I remember when O'Brien was a suspect because of his beef with the Cardies. Mirror Universe? Enterprise of all shows did great with that, by having the Captain just play Regular Archer and putting him in a mirror uniform. None of this is particularly new, it's just that it's done really badly here.

OK. You remember Profit and Lace where we learn that sex change operations are so trivial and painless in the Federation that they can be handled on an outpatient basis within hours in any standard sickbay? Add to that the fact that Federation plastic surgery is absolutely perfect and can be done with nothing more than a hypospray and a dermal regenerator within hours, and I have a sad truth for you: The reason there logically should not be a trans character is because sex changes in this universe are as easy as switching on a light switch. This is such an easy procedure in fact that in real life everyone would be doing it for a week just to see what it's like. Suddenly going from that to ''look at me, I'm trans, here are my many crippling issues'' would be STD canon-break number 4628 by my count.

That aside though, If you really want to convince me the progressive future presented here is natural and realistic, the fact that someone is trans SHOULD NOT be made a big deal of. None of Geordi's colleagues cared about him being blind because blind people in the 24th century live perfectly ordinary and equal lives matching those of people with sight. No one made a big deal of Uhura being a black woman on the bridge because black women on the bridge are commonplace. A transman or transwoman should barely be a footnote in someone's mind by this point, somewhere between ''I want some coffee'' and ''what's on the TV?'' As I said earlier, this is one of the reasons why every Star Trek show before STD did diversity and progressive values better because they showed us a world where no one cares about whatever label you've got anymore, they care about YOU.

[Worffan101]

OK. You remember Profit and Lace where we learn that sex change operations are so trivial and painless in the Federation that they can be handled on an outpatient basis within hours in any standard sickbay? Add to that the fact that Federation plastic surgery is absolutely perfect and can be done with nothing more than a hypospray and a dermal regenerator within hours, and I have a sad truth for you: The reason there logically should not be a trans character is because sex changes in this universe are as easy as switching on a light switch. This is such an easy procedure in fact that in real life everyone would be doing it for a week just to see what it's like. Suddenly going from that to ''look at me, I'm trans, here are my many crippling issues'' would be STD canon-break number 4628 by my count.

That aside though, If you really want to convince me the progressive future presented here is natural and realistic, the fact that someone is trans SHOULD NOT be made a big deal of. None of Geordi's colleagues cared about him being blind because blind people in the 24th century live perfectly ordinary and equal lives matching those of people with sight. No one made a big deal of Uhura being a black woman on the bridge because black women on the bridge are commonplace. A transman or transwoman should barely be a footnote in someone's mind by this point, somewhere between ''I want some coffee'' and ''what's on the TV?'' As I said earlier, this is one of the reasons why every Star Trek show before STD did diversity and progressive values better because they showed us a world where no one cares about whatever label you've got anymore, they care about YOU.

I refuse to accept Profit and Lace as a precedent here, first because it happens a hundred years after STD, and second because Profit and Lace was homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic shit and I hate its fetid guts.

A trans character (like a trans person IRL with the money to pay for a decent plastic surgeon) will look just like a cis person on the outside, yeah. But will their parents accept that little Anna is now Anthony? Will aliens accept them even if the rest of humanity does?

Don't make it all of their character, but have something like that about trying to get acceptance from some smaller group rather than society at large, 'cause even in the hopeful future not everybody's going to be perfect. And more importantly, having a trans character, even if they only mention that they're trans in passing or something like that, is important for real-world representation.

That's just my 2 cents, anyway.

[Mebius]

Does anyone on here like Discovery?

I don't hate Discovery, but there's a lot of it that I don't particularly care for.

[Admiral X]

Wow, complaints that DIS isn't diverse enough? That's a first, especially considering how some people (usually the kind who throw around the term 'SJW' non-ironically) talk about it.

Because nothing is ever good enough for the "progressive" crowd.