Star Trek (DIS): Despite Yourself

[FaxModem1]

Wasn't the whole kerfuffle with The 100 due to the actress being a regular on Fear the Walking Dead, therefore not the showrunner's fault?

Though, it's also a show with a rather high mortality rate and has killed off vast amounts of it's characters, due to the fact that the show is centered around a pessimistic take on humanity in a post-nuclear war world and how everyone keeps on repeating the same mistakes, leading to worse and worse circumstances?

[Deledrius]

Not the cast, though, the cast are doing good work with shit material, ain't their fault.

I really like the cast on Discovery, and I'm frustrated at least partially on their behalf that they're getting such underwritten roles.

I don't think I ever wished for B&B to burn in hell. I just wished they'd pulled their heads out of each others' asses and let Manny Coto finish out the series.

Same here. I want people to improve or get out of the way for someone better. For instance, Damon Lindelof has proven he has no intention of improving or self-awareness of his inability to write legitimately meaningful things, so I'd rather people stop hiring him to "fix" their scripts. I don't wish ill on him, despite him absolutely ruining Prometheus and Tomorrowland, and being behind some of the worst aspects of LOST. I just think he should find another line of work.

[BunBun299]

So, the answer to my question is No. There's nothing to Dr. Culbert beyond he's a doctor and he's gay.

This is kinda what I expected. From the few clips of him I've seen, he looks like he might've been the other character I could have seen myself liking if I watched this show. The other being Tilly. Because he was the other one that didn't seem to be an asshole.

But it would seem that the Doctor was never actually a character on this show. He was a box to be checked on their Politically Correct Check List. And once he fulfilled that purpose, he could then fulfill the only other thing on the writer's minds, Shock Value, the low fat substitute for story.

I really don't want to hate Discovery. I've loved Star Trek since I was a kid. It is still the universe I most dream of being in when I close my eyes. But every new thing I see about this series just makes me loath it for existing.

[Deledrius]

From the few clips of him I've seen, he looks like he might've been the other character I could have seen myself liking if I watched this show. The other being Tilly.

They don't know who Tilly is, either. Ahead of her class, full of smarts, and anxious and with some self-attested social or mental "special needs", but yet also a sorority party girl who loves to play beer pong, talk to strangers, and dates a lot. She constantly says the wrong things at the wrong times, but is also seemingly popular and gets along with everyone. She cares about the crew and will stand up for them even when it's unpopular, except when she's worried it might hurt her career advancement which leads her to lie and shun new people.

They have several different stereotypes they want her to be all at once, and some of them seem to contradict. She's not a complete mess as written, but by the end of the season I'm still not entirely sure who she is, despite being the roommate of the primary protagonist. Her success as a character largely comes down to whether you find the actress' portrayal endearing, I think.

[Worffan101]

Wasn't the whole kerfuffle with The 100 due to the actress being a regular on Fear the Walking Dead, therefore not the showrunner's fault?

Though, it's also a show with a rather high mortality rate and has killed off vast amounts of it's characters, due to the fact that the show is centered around a pessimistic take on humanity in a post-nuclear war world and how everyone keeps on repeating the same mistakes, leading to worse and worse circumstances?

Yes, but you have to remember that the LGBT fan base is very twitchy about this kind of thing because gay characters have historically been either jokes or killed off quickly as Too Good For This Sinful Earth. They could have handled it another way, for example making up some bullshit quest or something for the character to go on, then get the actress back later when her Walking Dead character inevitably bites it, but they chose the lazy way out.

Credit to the CW, though, they've avoided more situations like that like the plague ever since; Curtis Holt and his husband aren't going anywhere on Arrow, nor is Black Lightning's daughter, and when they lost the actress playing Alex Danvers's fiancee on Supergirl because she wanted to go be on the Punisher, they at least didn't kill her character off. The breakup was idiotic but at least they put in some effort to not be The Worst.

The 100 does have a high mortality rate, and yeah, that pessimistic take is also another major problem with the show because it makes the later seasons miserable to watch, but this particular death was out of nowhere, didn't really contribute to the main story arc of the season, and served only to briefly give the protagonist something to cry over and to piss off the fans.

Like, I can understand a high body count from regular post-apocalyptic violence, but the fan-favorite badass being shot and dying at random JUST after consummating her relationship with another character? I mean, there's Hope Spots and then there's just "why the Hell am I watching this show, they have nothing to offer me anymore but shock deaths and I hate shock deaths".

[Worffan101]

From the few clips of him I've seen, he looks like he might've been the other character I could have seen myself liking if I watched this show. The other being Tilly.

They don't know who Tilly is, either. Ahead of her class, full of smarts, and anxious and with some self-attested social or mental "special needs", but yet also a sorority party girl who loves to play beer pong, talk to strangers, and dates a lot. She constantly says the wrong things at the wrong times, but is also seemingly popular and gets along with everyone. She cares about the crew and will stand up for them even when it's unpopular, except when she's worried it might hurt her career advancement which leads her to lie and shun new people.

They have several different stereotypes they want her to be all at once, and some of them seem to contradict. She's not a complete mess as written, but by the end of the season I'm still not entirely sure who she is, despite being the roommate of the primary protagonist. Her success as a character largely comes down to whether you find the actress' portrayal endearing, I think.

Tilly is Young People.

As in, what the writers, who are mostly Gen-Xers and cronies of JJ Abrams, think These Young People These Days are like. These Young People with their silly 'neurological disorders' that We Real Adults don't have to understand, going out and partying at college like We did in college, hahaha, they'll like having a token Young People, won't they?

I like Wiseman but can't stand Tilly because I have a shitload of neurological issues that have left me with social skills developing 10 years late, and I find it irritating that Kurtzman and pals clearly did no research at all, likely out of laziness.

The writers are mostly between the ages of 40 and 60, and Kurtzman himself is a notoriously lazy, stupid, and incompetent 50something white dude. Expecting him to understand a young woman with neurological disorders is like expecting John "Bluto" Blutarsky to pass all his classes through developing a strong work ethic. It's just not going to happen, because Kurtzman is the kind of dimwitted, slothful, preening, set-in-his-ways degenerate who quite simply cannot write and has no interest in learning how because he's done enough cheap hack jobs to think that he's the best.

[Darth Wedgius]

So, the answer to my question is No. There's nothing to Dr. Culbert beyond he's a doctor and he's gay.

This is kinda what I expected. From the few clips of him I've seen, he looks like he might've been the other character I could have seen myself liking if I watched this show. The other being Tilly. Because he was the other one that didn't seem to be an asshole.

But it would seem that the Doctor was never actually a character on this show. He was a box to be checked on their Politically Correct Check List. And once he fulfilled that purpose, he could then fulfill the only other thing on the writer's minds, Shock Value, the low fat substitute for story.

I think this can be (but isn't always) a sibling trope to Black Dude Dies First. You've got a character you want to be there because you really care (or want to care or want to be seen as caring) about "diversity," but now you have a character who doesn't serve any vital story interest, and you've also got a minefield because if you screw up the characterization it's because you're a Nazi. And someone has to die to prove that the blob monster is more dangerous than the styrofoam and colored gelatin it's made of, so...

I think we're (finally, fitfully) moving away from that for black people. Richard Biggs, the actor who played Dr. Stephen Franklin on Babylon 5, said it was his favorite role because his being black never came up.

But then in this case, it might just be a side effect of the non-ensemble nature of STD. After TOS we got used to shows that gave the focus to different characters over time, and STD is focused on Michael. We did get more about Uhura than "black, female, communications officer," but it took time.

[Karha of Honor]

From the few clips of him I've seen, he looks like he might've been the other character I could have seen myself liking if I watched this show. The other being Tilly.

They don't know who Tilly is, either. Ahead of her class, full of smarts, and anxious and with some self-attested social or mental "special needs", but yet also a sorority party girl who loves to play beer pong, talk to strangers, and dates a lot. She constantly says the wrong things at the wrong times, but is also seemingly popular and gets along with everyone. She cares about the crew and will stand up for them even when it's unpopular, except when she's worried it might hurt her career advancement which leads her to lie and shun new people.

They have several different stereotypes they want her to be all at once, and some of them seem to contradict. She's not a complete mess as written, but by the end of the season I'm still not entirely sure who she is, despite being the roommate of the primary protagonist. Her success as a character largely comes down to whether you find the actress' portrayal endearing, I think.

When Tilly become Dax? I must have missed the dated a lot part.

[clearspira]

Wasn't the whole kerfuffle with The 100 due to the actress being a regular on Fear the Walking Dead, therefore not the showrunner's fault?

Though, it's also a show with a rather high mortality rate and has killed off vast amounts of it's characters, due to the fact that the show is centered around a pessimistic take on humanity in a post-nuclear war world and how everyone keeps on repeating the same mistakes, leading to worse and worse circumstances?

Yes, but you have to remember that the LGBT fan base is very twitchy about this kind of thing because gay characters have historically been either jokes or killed off quickly as Too Good For This Sinful Earth. They could have handled it another way, for example making up some bullshit quest or something for the character to go on, then get the actress back later when her Walking Dead character inevitably bites it, but they chose the lazy way out.

Credit to the CW, though, they've avoided more situations like that like the plague ever since; Curtis Holt and his husband aren't going anywhere on Arrow, nor is Black Lightning's daughter, and when they lost the actress playing Alex Danvers's fiancee on Supergirl because she wanted to go be on the Punisher, they at least didn't kill her character off. The breakup was idiotic but at least they put in some effort to not be The Worst.

The 100 does have a high mortality rate, and yeah, that pessimistic take is also another major problem with the show because it makes the later seasons miserable to watch, but this particular death was out of nowhere, didn't really contribute to the main story arc of the season, and served only to briefly give the protagonist something to cry over and to piss off the fans.

Like, I can understand a high body count from regular post-apocalyptic violence, but the fan-favorite badass being shot and dying at random JUST after consummating her relationship with another character? I mean, there's Hope Spots and then there's just "why the Hell am I watching this show, they have nothing to offer me anymore but shock deaths and I hate shock deaths".

Gay characters have always been portrayed as jokes in fiction - not going to disagree. But killed off in large numbers? I want some context before I agree with that. True equality is when you are treated like everyone else is, and I put to you that sparing the gay characters when the heterosexual ones are dying left and right is just as offensive because either way you are putting them on a special treatment bullshit pedestal. And yeah, having a fan favourite as a shock death is horrible if you happen to be their fan, but there is nothing there that is somehow offensive towards gays when heterosexuals are knocked off in the same way.
This is exactly by problem with the women in refrigerators trope for that matter - deliberately ignoring every contrary example and every piece of context and only focusing on a few that affirm your theory.

[Worffan101]

Gay characters have always been portrayed as jokes in fiction - not going to disagree. But killed off in large numbers? I want some context before I agree with that. True equality is when you are treated like everyone else is, and I put to you that sparing the gay characters when the heterosexual ones are dying left and right is just as offensive because either way you are putting them on a special treatment bullshit pedestal. And yeah, having a fan favourite as a shock death is horrible if you happen to be their fan, but there is nothing there that is somehow offensive towards gays when heterosexuals are knocked off in the same way.
This is exactly by problem with the women in refrigerators trope for that matter - deliberately ignoring every contrary example and every piece of context and only focusing on a few that affirm your theory.

There's a whole list under "Bury Your Gays" on TVTropes. There are a lot of characters on that list--and that's only the more egregious ones, not just the "X is LGBT and dead in Y episode" stuff.

On "The 100" specifically--yes, it is a show with a very high body count (and a pessimistic view on humanity for that matter despite explicitly making it clear that the Foibles Of The Old World were NOT the cause of the nuclear apocalypse), and yes, it is absolutely better than Discovery because it isn't just killing off the gay dude in a show with a low protagonist body count, but this was a main character killed literally the morning after she got together with her girlfriend and they slept together for the first time after months of buildup. It was seen as unjustified, unnecessary, and cruel, not to mention frustrating to the fans.

Discovery was worse on many levels, believe me, but it's still not great.

As for stuffing characters into the fridge--well, it's really not all that different from burying the gays, really. It's not NECESSARILY bad, but it's emblematic of lazy writing, it's a relatively cheap form of drama, and it regularly feels extremely artificial.