Trump considers ending birthright citizenship.

[LittleRaven]

Trump really just wants to be a dictator along the same line as Putin.

Nah. Putin wants power. Trump wants adulation. The problem with being a dictator is that staying alive is a full-time job. It's work. People are always looking to depose you - you have to constantly balance keeping competent (but not TOO competent) people comfortable (but not TOO comfortable) while making sure that YOU are indispensable to any process. Putin is quite comfortable in that world, and plays the game very well. Trump doesn't want to deal with any of that, and would be terrible at it if he tried. He just wants the parties.

Raven, how would that create stateless people? Wouldn't they just round them up and deport them again? And thus, that goes back to all the problems related to ICE?

Deport them to where? If someone comes into the US and has a baby, that baby does NOT automatically share citizenship with their parents. In fact, if a certain country wanted to make things difficult for us, (and many countries do) they could deliberately throw up barriers to those children getting citizenship and refuse to allow them back with their parents. These children are then here, but not citizens. And more even more troubling, their children won't be citizens either. We would very quickly get a population of people who live here, and can't go anywhere else, but are NOT American citizens.

There are a variety of ways this situation can develop, but none of them are good. Ever wonder why Europe has such a problem assimilating immigrants, when we've been doing it relatively seamlessly for hundreds of years? Birthright citizenship is a BIG reason. People simply can't live here for more than a generation without joining the club. And that's a very, very good thing.

[Yukaphile]

I still think Putin is pure evil though and the greatest threat to world peace than anything right now, more than the people we got here, more than terrorists, Putin. I think that disgusting bastard won't stop till he's reconquered Europe and has suppressed truth and put down dissent there.

Ah, so that's what you mean. Jeez, no wonder you meant stateless citizens. It's separating families and denying that new child certain civil liberties. I can't support that since the baby is innocent.

[Worffan101]

Trump really just wants to be a dictator along the same line as Putin.

Nah. Putin wants power. Trump wants adulation. The problem with being a dictator is that staying alive is a full-time job. It's work. People are always looking to depose you - you have to constantly balance keeping competent (but not TOO competent) people comfortable (but not TOO comfortable) while making sure that YOU are indispensable to any process. Putin is quite comfortable in that world, and plays the game very well. Trump doesn't want to deal with any of that, and would be terrible at it if he tried. He just wants the parties.

Raven, how would that create stateless people? Wouldn't they just round them up and deport them again? And thus, that goes back to all the problems related to ICE?

Deport them to where? If someone comes into the US and has a baby, that baby does NOT automatically share citizenship with their parents. In fact, if a certain country wanted to make things difficult for us, (and many countries do) they could deliberately throw up barriers to those children getting citizenship and refuse to allow them back with their parents. These children are then here, but not citizens. And more even more troubling, their children won't be citizens either. We would very quickly get a population of people who live here, and can't go anywhere else, but are NOT American citizens.

There are a variety of ways this situation can develop, but none of them are good. Ever wonder why Europe has such a problem assimilating immigrants, when we've been doing it relatively seamlessly for hundreds of years? Birthright citizenship is a BIG reason. People simply can't live here for more than a generation without joining the club. And that's a very, very good thing.

Well said.

We assimilate immigrants near-completely in about 25 years. Poles, Irish, Italians--they're all Americans now. americans with unusual last names. You try that in Europe and it'll never work.

[clearspira]

Trump really just wants to be a dictator along the same line as Putin.

Nah. Putin wants power. Trump wants adulation. The problem with being a dictator is that staying alive is a full-time job. It's work. People are always looking to depose you - you have to constantly balance keeping competent (but not TOO competent) people comfortable (but not TOO comfortable) while making sure that YOU are indispensable to any process. Putin is quite comfortable in that world, and plays the game very well. Trump doesn't want to deal with any of that, and would be terrible at it if he tried. He just wants the parties.

Raven, how would that create stateless people? Wouldn't they just round them up and deport them again? And thus, that goes back to all the problems related to ICE?

Deport them to where? If someone comes into the US and has a baby, that baby does NOT automatically share citizenship with their parents. In fact, if a certain country wanted to make things difficult for us, (and many countries do) they could deliberately throw up barriers to those children getting citizenship and refuse to allow them back with their parents. These children are then here, but not citizens. And more even more troubling, their children won't be citizens either. We would very quickly get a population of people who live here, and can't go anywhere else, but are NOT American citizens.

There are a variety of ways this situation can develop, but none of them are good. Ever wonder why Europe has such a problem assimilating immigrants, when we've been doing it relatively seamlessly for hundreds of years? Birthright citizenship is a BIG reason. People simply can't live here for more than a generation without joining the club. And that's a very, very good thing.

Well said.

We assimilate immigrants near-completely in about 25 years. Poles, Irish, Italians--they're all Americans now. americans with unusual last names. You try that in Europe and it'll never work.

Bullshit. It works all the time in Europe - I know, I live here. You know the common denominator between the Poles, Irish and Italians? Their cultures are very similar to one another, as are all European cultures. We bond very easily. And before anyone brings up our many wars; wars are started by governments. When the people have a choice, we choose to play football in No Man's Land on Christmas day.
The horror stories you have heard of European immigration are due to those from the Middle East and Africa because their culture really is nothing like ours or yours.

[Yukaphile]

Oh yeah, because you guys have a lot in common with Russia. The Poles freaking hate them, Germany has a massive guilt complex, and England is going full-blown police state.

Then why are Muslims having an easier time assimilating here? We don't get reports of mass rapes like many of my right-wing friends think is going on there, though they're paranoid it's going to happen at any moment here.

[clearspira]

Oh yeah, because you guys have a lot in common with Russia. The Poles freaking hate them, Germany has a massive guilt complex, and England is going full-blown police state.

Then why are Muslims having an easier time assimilating here? We don't get reports of mass rapes like many of my right-wing friends think is going on there, though they're paranoid it's going to happen at any moment here.

The Russian people are perfectly fine. I have worked with a few, and in many ways, their culture is very in keeping with ours. During the Sochi world cup, one guy who I work with couldn't stop talking about every second of every game he watched with me. And now he regales me with his theories about this series of the Walking Dead (he thinks Maggie is going to become the next Governor BTW).
Don't confuse governments with people, friend. I'm certainly not confusing you with yours. And as for Britain becoming a police state, that's a matter of opinion, and not an opinion I share. I'm very happy here thanks.

I think you used a very interesting key word in your second paragraph: Your right wing friends *THINK* is going on there.
You are getting a distorted view of the reality. I'm not saying they don't happen, but to give one reverse example, we in Britain greet every mass shooting in America with a shrug because to us it seems like you have one every week. You don't of course, in fact statistically its still quite rare. And its the same with our supposed roaming packs of Muslims that gets people of a certain political demographic fired up.

[Yukaphile]

OH PLEASE. I've heard stories. A German woman went to Russia and the dude hit on her claiming unfeminine women is the reason so many gay people are infesting Europe. And he was shocked that she fought back. There are 450 bans on what jobs women can take in Russia. And their culture, such as it is, especially the dating game, is based on the hunter-prey model. A Russian man chooses you as his girlfriend, no matter how you feel about it, and they're very selfish in bed. They don't care what women want. And their law enforcement is shit when it comes to dealing with domestic abuse issues. Yeah, they may be normal in every other way. But when it comes to men and women and gender roles? They're backward. Like 1950s America. And lest we forget two million men hunting down women and girls like cattle all across Eastern Europe in WWII? They're homophobic, patriarchal, transphobic, xenophobic, and can't account for the crimes their ancestors are guilty of.

[Worffan101]

Trump really just wants to be a dictator along the same line as Putin.

Nah. Putin wants power. Trump wants adulation. The problem with being a dictator is that staying alive is a full-time job. It's work. People are always looking to depose you - you have to constantly balance keeping competent (but not TOO competent) people comfortable (but not TOO comfortable) while making sure that YOU are indispensable to any process. Putin is quite comfortable in that world, and plays the game very well. Trump doesn't want to deal with any of that, and would be terrible at it if he tried. He just wants the parties.

Raven, how would that create stateless people? Wouldn't they just round them up and deport them again? And thus, that goes back to all the problems related to ICE?

Deport them to where? If someone comes into the US and has a baby, that baby does NOT automatically share citizenship with their parents. In fact, if a certain country wanted to make things difficult for us, (and many countries do) they could deliberately throw up barriers to those children getting citizenship and refuse to allow them back with their parents. These children are then here, but not citizens. And more even more troubling, their children won't be citizens either. We would very quickly get a population of people who live here, and can't go anywhere else, but are NOT American citizens.

There are a variety of ways this situation can develop, but none of them are good. Ever wonder why Europe has such a problem assimilating immigrants, when we've been doing it relatively seamlessly for hundreds of years? Birthright citizenship is a BIG reason. People simply can't live here for more than a generation without joining the club. And that's a very, very good thing.

Well said.

We assimilate immigrants near-completely in about 25 years. Poles, Irish, Italians--they're all Americans now. americans with unusual last names. You try that in Europe and it'll never work.

Bullshit. It works all the time in Europe - I know, I live here. You know the common denominator between the Poles, Irish and Italians? Their cultures are very similar to one another, as are all European cultures. We bond very easily. And before anyone brings up our many wars; wars are started by governments. When the people have a choice, we choose to play football in No Man's Land on Christmas day.
The horror stories you have heard of European immigration are due to those from the Middle East and Africa because their culture really is nothing like ours or yours.

You REALLY think Polish and Italian and Irish and Russian and Chinese and Vietnamese and Japanese and Mexican and Cuban and Angolan and Nigerian and every other subgroup of African and Indian and the 500+ Native American cultures are ALL very similar to each other and to American culture as a whole?

Here's the thing. We take in people from ALL OVER THE PLANET, and we assimilate them in about 25 years. First there's a wave of xenophobia, yes! No irish need apply, Chinese exclusion act, Nisei internment camps, etc. But after that, they're just "that Irish guy, do people still hate the Irish?" and then "Just Mr. O'Connor, nice guy who works at the paper mill".

In Europe, you've gotta be white and adapt to the country FAST or you might as well be subhuman. Look how cartoonishly terrified France is of face veils, lol. They're scared shitless of CLOTHES that are different from theirs--it's one step shy of Bhutan's North Korea-level micromanagement of its citizens' clothing choices. Meanwhile here, the only argument against immigrants that's gained serious traction is "they're taking our jobs!" because the economic threat is the only one anybody except fringe racists actually cares about here.

[Yukaphile]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there some places in Europe designated "nude-free zones" or something where you can strip naked if you want in public? And then this shit happens, lol.

[Worffan101]

OH PLEASE. I've heard stories. A German woman went to Russia and the dude hit on her claiming unfeminine women is the reason so many gay people are infesting Europe. And he was shocked that she fought back. There are 450 bans on what jobs women can take in Russia. And their culture, such as it is, especially the dating game, is based on the hunter-prey model. A Russian man chooses you as his girlfriend, no matter how you feel about it, and they're very selfish in bed. They don't care what women want. And their law enforcement is shit when it comes to dealing with domestic abuse issues. Yeah, they may be normal in every other way. But when it comes to men and women and gender roles? They're backward. Like 1950s America. And lest we forget two million men hunting down women and girls like cattle all across Eastern Europe in WWII? They're homophobic, patriarchal, transphobic, xenophobic, and can't account for the crimes their ancestors are guilty of.

This is one of the most racist screeds I've seen outside of 4chan.

Dude, you need help. If you genuinely think that an entire ethnic group is this bad, you need a reality check yesterday.