STD: What's Past is Prologue

[AlucardNoir]

And to the other guy: You are free to follow or to ignore my advice as you choose, and that's fine, but I have every right to express my opinion on here. And my opinion is that you should not watch this episode. You don't have to agree, but that's my opinion. And if you don't like it, tough.

If your idea of expressing your own opinion is "[...]you definitely don't want to watch the episode" then you'll have to excuse me if I don't really care about whatever you perceive to be your rights. Advice would have been "you probably don't want to watch the episode" or "I don't think you (or anyone else) should watch that episode". But you had to go the extra mile and express your opinion in a patronizing manner that made you sound like one of those "I know best" kind of assholes.

Take your last comment. You make it clear you don't like the episode and that you don't think people should see it. Now take your original comment: you explain the episode in short then tell people you know their mind better then they do and that they should do as you tell them to, and then go and express your negative opinion in regards to the episode.

[Meushell]

If it were just the blue guy in the Orville episode in question who was using pheromones I could have accepted it as aliens gotta alien, cultural differences, humans reacting more strongly than he expected, etc. And blue guy seems to see it from a different point of view at the end when he realized he'd really hurt people. The very end, where the captain and XO's marriage may have suffered because of it, seemed to be treated with a certain gravity. So far, better than how Atlantis treated it.

But what the command crew do with the pheromones (I won't spoil that)... That's what pushed it over the edge for me. It didn't make me regret seeing the episode, and for me it doesn't come anywhere near "Dear Doctor" or "Homeward" in my I-want-to-slap-these-people scale, but it left a bad taste no matter how many lives they saved.

The blue guy had worked with humans for years at that point. I find it impossible to believe he only just then learned it was bad. Instead, it came off as “Oh, they caught me again. I’ll pretend to care.” He’s a serial rapist. I also don’t agree that the situation with the marriage was treated with any seriousness. Kelly may have willingly cheated on her husband, or she may have been raped. When asked, Blue Guy answers with “Maybe.” The show should have had Kelly demand an answer. She has a right to know whether or not she was raped.

As for the crew, I am assuming they didn’t let any rape or molestation happen.

[Durandal_1707]

And to the other guy: You are free to follow or to ignore my advice as you choose, and that's fine, but I have every right to express my opinion on here. And my opinion is that you should not watch this episode. You don't have to agree, but that's my opinion. And if you don't like it, tough.

If your idea of expressing your own opinion is "[...]you definitely don't want to watch the episode" then you'll have to excuse me if I don't really care about whatever you perceive to be your rights.

And you'll excuse me if I don't really care about whether you really care or not. I've said my piece and I'm sticking to it. If you don't like it, agree to disagree.

Take your last comment. You make it clear you don't like the episode and that you don't think people should see it. Now take your original comment: you explain the episode in short then tell people you know their mind better then they do and that they should do as you tell them to, and then go and express your negative opinion in regards to the episode.

Do you get this worked up when Chuck reviews a crappy episode of something, summarizes its plot, and then puts a stamp of "Avoid" on it at the end? After all, he didn't stamp it with "gosh, you might maybe want to possibly avoid this, golly gee whiz I hope I didn't hurt Seth MacFarlane's delicate feelings by posting this because I'm sure he's paying close attention to some guy posting an opinion on the Internet."

For Pete's sake, take a Prozac or something and calm down. I'm Just A Viewer With An Opinion™.

[Darth Wedgius]

If it were just the blue guy in the Orville episode in question who was using pheromones I could have accepted it as aliens gotta alien, cultural differences, humans reacting more strongly than he expected, etc. And blue guy seems to see it from a different point of view at the end when he realized he'd really hurt people. The very end, where the captain and XO's marriage may have suffered because of it, seemed to be treated with a certain gravity. So far, better than how Atlantis treated it.

But what the command crew do with the pheromones (I won't spoil that)... That's what pushed it over the edge for me. It didn't make me regret seeing the episode, and for me it doesn't come anywhere near "Dear Doctor" or "Homeward" in my I-want-to-slap-these-people scale, but it left a bad taste no matter how many lives they saved.

The blue guy had worked with humans for years at that point. I find it impossible to believe he only just then learned it was bad. Instead, it came off as “Oh, they caught me again. I’ll pretend to care.” He’s a serial rapist. I also don’t agree that the situation with the marriage was treated with any seriousness. Kelly may have willingly cheated on her husband, or she may have been raped. When asked, Blue Guy answers with “Maybe.” The show should have had Kelly demand an answer. She has a right to know whether or not she was raped.

As for the crew, I am assuming they didn’t let any rape or molestation happen.

Do we know how frequently he works with humans? We know he has in the past and is again, but it might have been just those two times. You'd think if his species worked with humans a lot, the humans would know about it. As far as the "maybe" goes, I took it as meaning that he doesn't know the answer to that one. It seemed to me to be delivered somewhat somberly. YMMV, of course.

[Durandal_1707]

It doesn't freaking matter. Blue guy isn't on his planet. When you go somewhere, you're responsible for knowing the laws of that place and not breaking them—as they say, ignorance of the law is not a defense. So your planet allows rape? That's fine, but you're on our ship, where rape is definitely not legal. Also, remind me never to visit your planet.

How far do you expect this would go in the real world? If you were raped, would you shrug it off just because the perp is visiting from Frobistan and claims that rape is legal in his country? Would you expect law enforcement to? There is no way to defend this.

[AlucardNoir]

Do you get this worked up when Chuck reviews a crappy episode of something, summarizes its plot, and then puts a stamp of "Avoid" on it at the end? After all, he didn't stamp it with "gosh, you might maybe want to possibly avoid this, golly gee whiz I hope I didn't hurt Seth MacFarlane's delicate feelings by posting this because I'm sure he's paying close attention to some guy posting an opinion on the Internet."

For Pete's sake, take a Prozac or something and calm down. I'm Just A Viewer With An Opinion™.

You're not a viewer with an opinion, you're an asshole with an opinion, one you think everybody must share. Then again, why am I surprised? the internet is filled with people that think they know how everybody else ought to behave and what everybody else should think.

IT's a problem of linguistics. Can people avoid the episode? yes. May they avoid the episode? it depends on how important the relationship of the captain and the first officer develops in future episodes? Should they avoid the episode? baring the aforementioned reason of why not, it will depend on their personal sensibilities. Must they avoid the episode? NO.

There are very few things a person must do, avoiding a television episode that some find problematic is not on that list. Neither is seeing said episode or the series it's a part of mind you.

As for Mr. Sonnenburg - and other reviewers for the matter - yes, if he uploads an episode and I vehemently disagree with him I make my opinion heard. Then again, SFDebris rarely is as crass as to tell us what we should think. Usually, avoid is just his opinion, rarely has he gone to the extreme you like defending.

[Meushell]

Do you get this worked up when Chuck reviews a crappy episode of something, summarizes its plot, and then puts a stamp of "Avoid" on it at the end? After all, he didn't stamp it with "gosh, you might maybe want to possibly avoid this, golly gee whiz I hope I didn't hurt Seth MacFarlane's delicate feelings by posting this because I'm sure he's paying close attention to some guy posting an opinion on the Internet."

For Pete's sake, take a Prozac or something and calm down. I'm Just A Viewer With An Opinion™.

You're not a viewer with an opinion, you're an asshole with an opinion, one you think everybody must share. Then again, why am I surprised? the internet is filled with people that think they know how everybody else ought to behave and what everybody else should think.

IT's a problem of linguistics. Can people avoid the episode? yes. May they avoid the episode? it depends on how important the relationship of the captain and the first officer develops in future episodes? Should they avoid the episode? baring the aforementioned reason of why not, it will depend on their personal sensibilities. Must they avoid the episode? NO.

There are very few things a person must do, avoiding a television episode that some find problematic is not on that list. Neither is seeing said episode or the series it's a part of mind you.

As for Mr. Sonnenburg - and other reviewers for the matter - yes, if he uploads an episode and I vehemently disagree with him I make my opinion heard. Then again, SFDebris rarely is as crass as to tell us what we should think. Usually, avoid is just his opinion, rarely has he gone to the extreme you like defending.

Unless there is something I’m missing, perhaps in other threads, I think you are taking his “You don’t want to watch this” waaaaay too seriously.

[clearspira]

It doesn't freaking matter. Blue guy isn't on his planet. When you go somewhere, you're responsible for knowing the laws of that place and not breaking them—as they say, ignorance of the law is not a defense. So your planet allows rape? That's fine, but you're on our ship, where rape is definitely not legal. Also, remind me never to visit your planet.

How far do you expect this would go in the real world? If you were raped, would you shrug it off just because the perp is visiting from Frobistan and claims that rape is legal in his country? Would you expect law enforcement to? There is no way to defend this.

Again though, my point is simple: is the naturally evolved reproductive system of your species actually rape? Pheremone use is how they as a lifeform evolved to have sex. That isn't rape. That's biology. To give a better real world example: dogs go into heat, a period that often can drive the male to ''rape'' the female. I think on such a world everything you were raised to know about consent would be upside down. I don't think your analogy of a human visiting another country works because you are dealing with another human doing it to another human. This simply is not the same thing as trying to deal with a literally alien way of thinking.

Now that is NOT to excuse negligence. I agree that ignorance is not an excuse. But to say that ''your planet allows rape'' I think is unfair.

[thisithis]

Well, the point of all stupidly dumb decisions has finally come to Star trek proving that Star Trek: Discovery is the Stargate: Universe of bad tv shows. With Star Trek: Discovery you have Michael making one dumb ass decision after another, and Stargate: Universe you had a bunch of scientists thinking that they take on well-trained Marines in hand to hand combat. in Stargate: Universe we also had a Marine as a woman got kidnapped by aliens. if sfdebris ever reviews Stargate: Universe he'll probably have a contest on who is the stupidest with Star Trek: Discovery and Stargate: Universe ranking at the top.

Stargate Universe had a lot of problems to it. The characters were unlikeable, they made a lot of stupid decisions, it tried way too hard to be like Battlestar Galactica and not hard enough to be like Stargate, etc. etc. But its biggest sin was that it was boring. So, so boring. The plot moved at a snails pace and way too many episodes just felt like a bunch of people wandering around bickering with each other. If SFDebris ever does review its pilot, the most accurate review it could be given would just be a 90 minute audio file of Chuck snoring.

Sad but true.

[kaingerc]

But Chuck, Lorca HAS to be the real bad guy because he was paraphrasing Trump.

Also, the episode didn't really tell us how exactly the Discovery crew were using the spores the RIGHT way and Lorca wanted to use it the WRONG way. (because he wanted to use more of it at once?)
Even the Light Side and Dark side of the force have clearer definitions than this spore nonsense.