Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:22 am
It was "Joker" that possibly raped "Batgirl," not Batman...
Animated version, not the comic. They added an opening half hour or so focusing on Batgirl that had really squick connotations about her and Bats sleeping together.
Which also takes the "random senseless violence" of the original book and then turns it into the girlfriend in a refrigerator trope on top of everything else.
This will likely be my only contribution to this board but after watching Chuck's review I just really, really need to get this off my chest - what they did to Lorca is one of the most disappointing things I've ever had the displeasure of watching, and I will include any episode or character arc of Voyager in that.
I have always been a big ST fan and while I was late to Discovery, being in Canada and refusing to use the service it was on, I studiously avoided any spoilers when and where I could, with the exception being the first two of Chuck's reviews. Once I started watching I absolutely fell for the character of Gabriel Lorca, who I thought was going to have this excellent arc that they seemed to be setting up - a Starfleet captain who plays a little fast and loose with the rules, like Sisko or Kirk, then pushed to the edge by the horrific loss of his ship and crew, a likely sufferer of a form of PTSD with severe survivor's guilt. His only calling now: to win the war that cost the lives of so many, any way he had to.
I loved it. I thought the arc would be going in the route of Lorca delving deeper and deeper into morally dark areas, creating excuse after excuse for the horrific consequences of his actions, until eventually they took out so much mentally and emotionally from him that he comes to the realization he's gone too far. Then there's either his heroic return to 'Starfleet values' or he makes an ultimate sacrifice. I felt even more sure of this as we saw Ash struggle with his issues and Michael work through her guilt and moral questions, and I just thought, wow once we see this through it's going to be one of the best, most human stories ever told in Star Trek, goddam.
I realized after of course how delusional this was - I wanted to believe it, even though it was never going to happen.
Once it was revealed Lorca belonged to the Mirror Universe at the end of Vaulting Ambition (yes - I had no idea, seriously), I stopped watching for probably close to a month. I was so utterly crushed by that revelation because I knew they would just make him out to be just a regular old evil bad guy man. It was obvious with the end of the episode as he killed and taunted the guard. Lorca wasn't someone who had depth to his character because of what he had gone through - he was just an asshole, an ambitious, uber-manipulative asshole who won up until the point he didn't because of lazy writing. As if Trek doesn't have enough of those.
And while yes, Chuck's mention of fate and etc. would have made an excellent character arc for Lorca, it pales in comparison to what I was hoping for. I wanted Lorca to represent Starfleet at its most desperate, most human, like Sisko vs the Dominion but with darker characters that would then require greater actions to turn around. Instead we get a completely redemptionless prick who dies in the most cliff-hangery way possible while Michael fails to demonstrate an iota of character growth (getting over Georgiou) and sets up the worst, most rushed ending of a series I've ever had to sit through.
Lorca getting to that "I've gone too far" moment? Played out instead by Cromwell and Sarek, two characters I nor the series itself could have cared less about.
Ash Tyler is left a completely useless character - seriously, you turned him into a Klingon, what? - and that hoped-for moment of Lorca and Ash getting through their troubled pasts together is just that, hoped-for.
Michael is, my God I hate Michael, I don't and never will understand what the writers expected to get out of her, I feel like Chakotay got more chances to demonstrate positive character growth.
No one learned a lesson. No one had their arcs come to a satisfying close. Nothing of consequence actually happened. Discovery ended up as a big, fat, nothing, except being disappointing af.
At least I didn't have to pay CBS for the 'pleasure' of watching it, thank you VPN.
Sorry for my rant, love the site Chuck, one day I'll donate something, promise.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:22 am
It was "Joker" that possibly raped "Batgirl," not Batman...
Animated version, not the comic. They added an opening half hour or so focusing on Batgirl that had really squick connotations about her and Bats sleeping together.
Which also takes the "random senseless violence" of the original book and then turns it into the girlfriend in a refrigerator trope on top of everything else.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:22 am
It was "Joker" that possibly raped "Batgirl," not Batman...
Animated version, not the comic. They added an opening half hour or so focusing on Batgirl that had really squick connotations about her and Bats sleeping together.
Which also takes the "random senseless violence" of the original book and then turns it into the girlfriend in a refrigerator trope on top of everything else.
Is Barbara an adult who can consent or not?
Yeah, in film she's in college, and is discussing her love life in coded terms at the College library with the token 'gay best friend' character.
The film is a bit of a mess, and is best handled as being two features. A day in the life of Batgirl, and The killing Joke, because the two do NOT mesh thematically or narratively.
I don't disagree with Chuck a lot but here is one of them. Michael's relationship with and attachment to Emperor Georgiou is more certainly portrayed as unhealthy.
One could argue that anyone capable of seizing control of the Terran Empire and holding onto it will, by default, be a complete monster who's A-OK with destroying whole planets and ruling with an iron fist. So whether Lorca, Georgiou, or someone else is left in charge really doesn't matter.
Fianna wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:40 am
One could argue that anyone capable of seizing control of the Terran Empire and holding onto it will, by default, be a complete monster who's A-OK with destroying whole planets and ruling with an iron fist. So whether Lorca, Georgiou, or someone else is left in charge really doesn't matter.
Certainly Empress Georgiou is a monster and so is Lorca.
Also, the ultimate thing that needed to be done here was to destroy the yeast ball ship (Chuck's description was funny, so I'm going with it ) to stop the corruption that it was causing, and whoever was on the throne at the time was going to be unavoidable collateral damage.
Of course, given the way he ended with no body, I doubt we've seen the end of Lorca.
) to stop the corruption that it was causing, and whoever was on the throne at the time was going to be unavoidable collateral damage.
