Batman: Mask of the Phantasm

[CharlesPhipps]

Eh, I think Bruce Wayne is why Gotham City is not Bludhaven or Hub City. Because Gotham City has billionaires, Times Square, and lots of people living decently. It's just Batman doesn't visit those places.

As for "Good Police could take care of the Joker." Well, obviously not since they can't because the Joker is the Batman of evil. Basically, the cops can't succeed against him anymore than they can against Batman. Mind you, before Batman, in Year One, we see the cops ARE criminals.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

As for "Good Police could take care of the Joker." Well, obviously not since they can't because the Joker is the Batman of evil. Basically, the cops can't succeed against him anymore than they can against Batman. Mind you, before Batman, in Year One, we see the cops ARE criminals.

This I agree with on the basis that it's Joker by definition; that he's a omni-slippery and always keeps some buffer between him and whomever he's toying with. So if the plan were in place for GCPD to take him out, then he'd probably be on to it at that point and string them around to which point he gets away (or successfully captured at which point there's no real COA that entails shooting him).

[Alinis]

It should also perhaps noted that while Bruce Wayne does use his vast fortune and business to make things better there are others who don't.

A example of this would be Roland Dagget, Ruby Ryder, Gregorian Falstaff and others, powerful business tycoons who who use their fortunes for evil purposes and often as not were responsible for the creation of a number of Gotham's super villains or funding a number of criminal operations batman has to deal with.

[cdrood]

I've always been of the mind that both Bruce and Batman are masks. The real man is when you see him in the Batcave, costume on, cowl off. That's when he's doing his training and detective work. It's when he can talk to Alfred or Dick without Bruce's nonchalance or Batman's attitude.

[cdrood]

This version of Batman is very similar to the 70's version by Denny O'Neill and Neal Adams. It established a good balance between Bruce Wayne and Batman as well as between the detective and the vigilante. That's why the DCAU version of Batman shines. There's balance.

He's not the complete jerkass some writers seem to try and portray. He's not a revenge seeking psycho. He's obsessed, but mostly controls and directs that obsession and is capable of having moments of joy. To this day, I'm pissed at how writers have retconned the breakup of the original Batman & Robin team. The New Teen Titans/Batman & The Outsiders crossover showed a father and son coming to terms that the son was now a man and had in some ways surpassed the father (Dick actually being the more experienced team leader at this point). No Batman fired Robin. No "F... Batman".

[G-Man]

I've always been of the mind that both Bruce and Batman are masks. The real man is when you see him in the Batcave, costume on, cowl off. That's when he's doing his training and detective work. It's when he can talk to Alfred or Dick without Bruce's nonchalance or Batman's attitude.

I think that's a good point. When we say that "Bruce Wayne is the mask," we usually mean that the public persona of Bruce Wayne is the mask. When he is with true friends, he isn't either of the personas he normally puts on.

[abki]

I adore this film.

Personal anecdote time:
When I was enlisted, I showed this to a few of my buddies, who really enjoyed it. The big pull was that they were trying to figure out who the Phantasm was. They all thought it was the Councilman, due to the fact that he was rather buff looking, and had history with the mob. It was rather entertaining when the reveal happened and they found out who the Phantasm really was.

Now, there's a couple of things that are odd in this film. The Phantasm survives being shot at, and the sharp half of a broken shovel thrown at her like a javelin. These give her an almost supernatural quality. It's never really explained or revealed how she does this. My guess is just that she uses the smoke to duck out of the way and then reappear when she's out of danger, but it makes you wonder what was really happening on a rewatch.

The other is that the police's violent pursuit of Batman just kind of ends. I guess blowing up a building due to reckless fire and the City Councilman making waves about it dying from Joker gas killed any traction the city had with it. Especially the number of times Batman saves the city(and the world) afterward.

That said, the film's acting, storyline, visuals, and soundtrack all make this a beautiful film to watch.

I've also wondered about the almost supernatural dodging. A pet theory of mine is that there might have been some sort of psychoactive agent in the smoke. If the gangsters were drugged it would help explain how they missed and/or seemed to see things go through the Phantasm. It would also tie in nicely with Batman always finding a chemical residue at the scenes of the crime, and the Phantasm spraying the Joker in the face with her smoke (although - I will admit that being blasted in the face with the contents of a smoke machine will probably distract you regardless of the exact nature of said contents).

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I've always been of the mind that both Bruce and Batman are masks. The real man is when you see him in the Batcave, costume on, cowl off. That's when he's doing his training and detective work. It's when he can talk to Alfred or Dick without Bruce's nonchalance or Batman's attitude.

I think that's a good point. When we say that "Bruce Wayne is the mask," we usually mean that the public persona of Bruce Wayne is the mask. When he is with true friends, he isn't either of the personas he normally puts on.

Except the Timm works don't really give us any of that. He bickers with Alfred or orders Graysen around, and that's about it. In the Nolan movies it's very introspective, and it does serve well as exposition, but it's not characteristic or anything.

Bruce Wayne being a mask is interesting because that's what he puts in place of what we would call a persona. It's his extension into this world as it would be ours, but it's completely fabricated. It resonates with anybody who feels they put on a mask in public, but it gives it this defined premise.

[TrueMetis]

I think the one that does the "both are masks" point the best is some hints in Young Justice. IE when Dick is feeling down he has Alfred bring him out so they can play basketball. Bruce even makes something of a joke when he calls it "hand eye coordination training". So he's not being as serious as Batman, nor is he the billionaire. He's just a guy having a game of 1 on 1 with his son. You see some more of this when he's talking to, Wonderwoman I think it was, about how he taught Robin to fight crime so he wouldn't end up like Batman. So this version knows he's damaged and is at least somewhat trying to deal with it.

[Independent George]

Mind you, I haven't read the comics in years, but I think the whole "Batman is a dick" schtick comes from some writers attempting to deal with the obvious exhaustion and likely PTSD that he likely suffers from after years (decades? hard to tell with comic book time) of his mission. There's a lot that can be done with that idea... but it's very difficult to pull off.