Any areas you passionately agree with Chuck on?

[Yukaphile]

When he insisted that if a man raped Hitler's mother to avert the Holocaust, it doesn't make him a hero, just a piece of shit, my heart always sings when I hear that, especially how Duke Neutron is gonna hunt him down and give him a six-shooter full of justice!

[FaxModem1]

I wonder if the Caatati from Voyager's "Day of Honor" are supposed to be a negative example of where aid can get you, and could be used as a justification for the prime directive. Their civilization is in ruins from the Borg, and Voyager gives them some help, at least what they can afford. For the Caatati, that's not good enough, and they later bring their entire fleet to demand more from Voyager.

Luckily, Seven is able to give them the means to save their civilization via Borg knowledge, and they leave out of gratitude, but it could have gone differently with the Caatati using that knowledge to become even more belligerent.

And that's what stories about the Prime Directive should be about, you can't help everyone unless you intend to play nursemaid to the entire galaxy, and that's probably beyond your capabilities. In Enterprise, the Vulcans helped uplift the humans from a post-nuclear war society, and they're still there 90 years later, worried about what direction the humans are taking.

At the same time, all that aid really does help. Earth has wiped out most diseases, has longer lifespans, peace on earth, no hunger, and a restored climate. But it cost the Vulcans being the superpower on the block when humans dominate politics a few centuries later.

Imagine if they did similar things to someone like the Kazon.

EDIT: That's to say, the issue will almost always be complicated, unless it's a genocide by rogue asteroid/comet/etc. scenario that is easily preventable.

[TrueMetis]

Would the prime directive even apply there? The Caatati aren't pre-warp, and their issue isn't an internal affair since it was caused by an attack from an outside agent.

[Nealithi]

The problem is nonintervention was prewarp societies. And various levels of too involved. But the Klingons have a civil war. Prime Directive = Not our problem. Species conquers another species and the losing side asks for help. Both sides are warp capable. Prime Directive = not our problem.

ToS Prime Directive was to not be John Gil. You see an asteroid heading to wipe out a world, you move it. Colony ship of people will crash into a star? Better warn them than let them all die.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I wonder if the Caatati from Voyager's "Day of Honor" are supposed to be a negative example of where aid can get you, and could be used as a justification for the prime directive. Their civilization is in ruins from the Borg, and Voyager gives them some help, at least what they can afford. For the Caatati, that's not good enough, and they later bring their entire fleet to demand more from Voyager.

Luckily, Seven is able to give them the means to save their civilization via Borg knowledge, and they leave out of gratitude, but it could have gone differently with the Caatati using that knowledge to become even more belligerent.

And that's what stories about the Prime Directive should be about, you can't help everyone unless you intend to play nursemaid to the entire galaxy, and that's probably beyond your capabilities. In Enterprise, the Vulcans helped uplift the humans from a post-nuclear war society, and they're still there 90 years later, worried about what direction the humans are taking.

At the same time, all that aid really does help. Earth has wiped out most diseases, has longer lifespans, peace on earth, no hunger, and a restored climate. But it cost the Vulcans being the superpower on the block when humans dominate politics a few centuries later.

Imagine if they did similar things to someone like the Kazon.

EDIT: That's to say, the issue will almost always be complicated, unless it's a genocide by rogue asteroid/comet/etc. scenario that is easily preventable.

I think you're actually on to something. Kinda. The PD is a rule that Federation members are subject to. It's a matter of sharing "warp space" between colonies, and it lies on the conservative side of things. Membership with the Federation bears with it responsibilities that post-warp societies must adopt, and in turn be protected through alliance. Sorta like a club.

The thing about that episode is that Seven is part of Voyager's club, so her association with the Borg gives a correlation to the assimilation of the Caatai, which she was present for. So in effect, Voyager fosters responsibility for the Caatai ships circumstance. Janeway's willing to fight of course, so she's not conceding to the responsibility, but there is correlation. A subplot in the episode is Torres berating Seven for what she was a part of as a drone. Also the intro scene involves Seven remaining partial to her Borg identity. This culminates to Seven becoming a deus ex machina at the end, but with that that entails her accepting her identity.

Part of the PD on the wiki is as follows:

As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.

The bold is what Seven is doing .

So in a way, it's not about not feeding the bears, but the complications of the Borg itself interfering with societies (they are Communists). Then Voyager is the one that's stuck dealing with them.

[Yukaphile]

I agree passionately with Chuck that the scariest form for terror to take is a clown. Hell, it's why the Joker is such a popular villain.

[Nealithi]

I also loved his tearing into the lack of gun safety and turning to the NRA to point out you do not just rely on the safety. And you don't point your gun at the person you are supposed to be protecting.

[Yukaphile]

If the DS9 two-parter "Past Tense" is to be believed, that got him complaints from some left-wingers on being an NRA whore, at the same time he was being criticized for being a left-winger, or too cowardly to take a stand on a subject. Could be reading this wrong, though.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I totally agree with Chuck that Star Trek First Contact was a good movie.

[FaxModem1]

As per DS9's "Paradise", Luddhism is a mistake in philosophy, as the problems with such a society is that a lot of suffering and death will happen that is easily preventable.