Star Trek: Into Darkness

[CharlesPhipps]

There's also the fact quite a few people liked Into Darkness and were "meh" about Beyond.

I think a lot of Trek fans don't get that Beyond is also a movie that functions very much like what the average fan wanted from it but it's also insubstantial in terms of stakes or audience investment. The first movie had Vulcan destroyed, the second movie set up Kirk's love of his life plus a war with the Klingons, and the third movie....oh that guy was bad but he's dead now.

Any forward momentum from Into Darkness was lost.

(Mind you, I'm the only guy who seems to have liked it here)

[Karha of Honor]

There's also the fact quite a few people liked Into Darkness and were "meh" about Beyond.

I think a lot of Trek fans don't get that Beyond is also a movie that functions very much like what the average fan wanted from it but it's also insubstantial in terms of stakes or audience investment. The first movie had Vulcan destroyed, the second movie set up Kirk's love of his life plus a war with the Klingons, and the third movie....oh that guy was bad but he's dead now.

Any forward momentum from Into Darkness was lost.

(Mind you, I'm the only guy who seems to have liked it here)

The Last Jedi was the first branded IP movie to get truly kicked in the face by the unwoke part of the movie audience.

It would not surprise me if that trend started a bit beofre that. The Sulu gay and original Sulu disliking it was pretty bad PR.

[CharlesPhipps]

Which is irritating because it's not even a subplot in the movie. If you're going to go, at least go all out.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

There's also the fact quite a few people liked Into Darkness and were "meh" about Beyond.

I think a lot of Trek fans don't get that Beyond is also a movie that functions very much like what the average fan wanted from it but it's also insubstantial in terms of stakes or audience investment. The first movie had Vulcan destroyed, the second movie set up Kirk's love of his life plus a war with the Klingons, and the third movie....oh that guy was bad but he's dead now.

Any forward momentum from Into Darkness was lost.

(Mind you, I'm the only guy who seems to have liked it here)

The Last Jedi was the first branded IP movie to get truly kicked in the face by the unwoke part of the movie audience.

It would not surprise me if that trend started a bit beofre that. The Sulu gay and original Sulu disliking it was pretty bad PR.

Star Wars has a way more toxic fanbase than Trek though. Trek fanbase gets plenty of distraction in the way of actual science speculation.

There's also the fact quite a few people liked Into Darkness and were "meh" about Beyond.

I think a lot of Trek fans don't get that Beyond is also a movie that functions very much like what the average fan wanted from it but it's also insubstantial in terms of stakes or audience investment. The first movie had Vulcan destroyed, the second movie set up Kirk's love of his life plus a war with the Klingons, and the third movie....oh that guy was bad but he's dead now.

Any forward momentum from Into Darkness was lost.

(Mind you, I'm the only guy who seems to have liked it here)

Well I tend to like anything... Really though I do agree about the reaction to Beyond. From Pegg writing the script, you knew that it was a return to form of sorts, just too discrete. I still do think though that universes as well as sagas are where the juice is at now in days.

[CharlesPhipps]

That's the thing which Chuck seems annoyed by.

Khan was completely unnecessary....but plenty of people saw the movie just to see him and Kirk have a rematch.

Not so much with Kraal.

[Karha of Honor]

There's also the fact quite a few people liked Into Darkness and were "meh" about Beyond.

I think a lot of Trek fans don't get that Beyond is also a movie that functions very much like what the average fan wanted from it but it's also insubstantial in terms of stakes or audience investment. The first movie had Vulcan destroyed, the second movie set up Kirk's love of his life plus a war with the Klingons, and the third movie....oh that guy was bad but he's dead now.

Any forward momentum from Into Darkness was lost.

(Mind you, I'm the only guy who seems to have liked it here)

The Last Jedi was the first branded IP movie to get truly kicked in the face by the unwoke part of the movie audience.

It would not surprise me if that trend started a bit beofre that. The Sulu gay and original Sulu disliking it was pretty bad PR.

Star Wars has a way more toxic fanbase than Trek though. Trek fanbase gets plenty of distraction in the way of actual science speculation.

I would like to see some better speculation on that. Also The Kelvinverse is for the general audience first and foremost.

[CharlesPhipps]

Which is part of why I think Beyond didn't do great.

The general audience didn't get what it was hoping for after two movies of the same stuff which had appealed to them.

[bluebydefault]

I hate that I spent money on this movie to see it in theaters. I was angry when I left the theater.It is the reason I waited to see Beyond as a rental and it turned out to be my favorite of the 3.

There really is a huge disconnect between what most fans want to see and what we are getting. I'm not even sure if the attempts at more action over substance are even really getting more loyal fans into the franchise. I mean it may have made the most money but the "meh" response it got hurt Beyond (which was a better film). And the only people I know who watched Discovery seemed to be Star Trek fans already and they have mixed responses. I'm usually for opening up some older franchises and shaking things up a bit. I'm not super strict about what is and isn't "trek" but playing too hard to the people who just want a popcorn flick leaves the loyal people out. And you're shooting yourself in the foot when people just wanting a fun popcorn movie don't return and neither do the fans.

There is nothing wrong with preferring a popcorn flicks or fun movies to anything more heavy or insightful. But I feel like most of the time people can tell when they have been short changed on a good experience even without deconstructing it like us nerds do. They just stop watching or don't come back for the next movies. There are plenty of crowd pleasing movies that are dumb, but when something feels cynical it usually shows.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Which is part of why I think Beyond didn't do great.

The general audience didn't get what it was hoping for after two movies of the same stuff which had appealed to them.

How do you think the whole monster-of-the-week thing works out with Trek movies?

[Yukaphile]

Take it from me. I'm an old, loyal fan, and I haven't come back for STD, the reboot movies... I don't intend to come back for STG either. I haven't seen a single episode of those either. I haven't even seen SF Debris's episodes. What I know he's said comes from others.