Will The Disney Star War Sequel Trilogy Stand the Test of Time

[Karha of Honor]

I actually think that Rey's parents being nobodies was the best way to resolve that plot thread by far.

At the moment it feels weird to see her going into a mystical cave for the force to oh so enchantingly say in particular, nothing. As an alley oop from Abrams to Johnson, I just don't get it.

That, yeah. We should've at least had a vision, something less rooted in obscure metaphor maybe. As-is the mirror thing lacks the impact of Luke seeing his own face in Vader's helmet.

The core problem is that, while saying "You don't need some mystical bloodline to be strong in the Force" is a good message and in keeping with the Buddhism-as-preached-to-Americans spiritualism of the Force in its original concept, TLJ is a movie with such an ass-backwards structure that the plotline doesn't have the time to fully develop and so it comes off as generic and boring and fails Rey and any fans she might have.

We already know that you don't need a bloodline strong in the Force. We saw all those Jedi in the Clone Wars and the Prequels.

Well, only time will tell if the new trilogy will stand the test of... time. However, I remember the uproar that the prequel trilogy caused. It killed Star Wars, they said. "George Lucas destroyed my childhood," they said. "Where are my Dreadnaughts and Victory Stardestroyers!" they said. "Too much politics! This is not my Star Wars!" And here we are, 20 years later, with two tv series directly linked to them (the two Clone Wars series) and one indirectly linked (Rebels), books, comics, and some video games. One of them, Knights of the Old Republic and its follow-ups, drew heavily from the aesthetic and the background of the Prequel Trilogy.

So, what will happen with the Sequel Trilogy? Hard to tell when we are sitting at the middle of the story. It will also depend on the derivative material that will come out of the movies. The Clone Wars did wonders for the Prequel Trilogy. We already have Resistance and, so far, I like where they are going.

One thing is sure though, whatever they do, fans will be bitching. I firmly believe that who ever had directed those movies, the fans would have been bitching. If Steven Spielberg had directed the movies, or Guillermo Del Toro, or Peter Jackson, or Ridley Scott, or George Lucas (the Great Childhood Destroyer) it would have made no difference. Because there is no way that each of these directors' vision on Star Wars would have been exactly the same as "the fans." Oh, some that hate the present trilogy may have been satisfied, but others would be bitching with the same rabbid rage we can see, hear and read on the Internet these days.

Sorry when did the management of Star Wars did not suck?

Star Wars is the San Antonio Spurs and they have the front office of a bad lottery team.

[Wargriffin]

Reys parents being Nobodies isn't inherently wrong

Its the fact that They are one of the few notable things Rey as a character wants outside of the narrative and their dismissal basically makes the plotline worthless. Your Parents were nobodies, ergo we don't have to follow that plot line cause you already knew the answer why they abandoned you!!!


Fucking Power Rangers Wild Force did this better!



youtu.be/dLYUc5t6wag

Here you go a look at the dysfunctional philosophy behind Last Jedi atleast maybe that was what he was going for...

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

For me, the issue with Rey's parents being nobody is that the films had drawn that mystery out for far to long and it was built up, both in and out of universe, that her parents were important only for Last to come out and say that her parents were no one of any importance. If her parents were nobodies then that SHOULD have been addressed at the end of Awakens so the films could set the foundation for the rest of her character arc.

Basically this for me. Some of TLJ's defenders (including people involved with Star Wars) have been pretty disingenuous in pinning the disappointment regarding Rey's parentage on fans' being upset that their headcanons didn't play out on screen. If it were just Rey obsessing over her parents/family, I might agree, but the big mystery was obviously played up for all it was worth both on and off-screen. Among other things, Han, Leia, and others acted pretty strange around Rey from the very beginning, then you have all the little cute stuff like Obi-Wan calling to Rey in her vision and cutting away just before Han tells Maz who she is.

It's akin to an Agatha Christie mystery if Poirot were to gather all the suspects together for the dramatic denouement, only to reveal that the victim was actually murdered by some random vagrant that you never met. Of course that's going to disappoint people.

Maybe it is time for a "nobody" hero. Luke was that in a sense, and yet I'd be fine with someone unrelated to the Skywalker line... but maybe you should actually build a story that sets that up properly. Make Rey recognize her own value and then force others to take her seriously, rather than the weird route they went with where everyone already seemed to see her as the greatest person ever and the galaxy's last hope.

Why should we believe what Kylo Ren said? How should he know that Rey's parents were drunkards? The dark side vision Rey had was showing her her greatest fear. That she is alone. Kylo used that to lure her to his side. He basicaly said: "Who cares about your past? Who cares who your parents were? You are who you are, and you have me!"

Kylo saw it because Rey already knew herself. More importantly, Rey's parents being nobodies is central to what Rian Johnson is trying to say about the character in TLJ. Rey is trying to figure out how she fits into the galactic scheme of things, and she's constantly yearning for acceptance/approval by authority figures. Kylo tries to take advantage of this in a creepy, abusive way. Rey ultimately rejects him and chooses to create her own place in the story, irrespective of her lack of pedigree.

If they go back and give her some famous ancestors now, it undercuts that entire message. Of course, RJ undercut all the hints and winks and nods about Rey's parentage in TFA, so I wouldn't put it past them to snap it back once again.

It's not a bad idea in principle. Heck, I might even prefer it if they had set it up properly, but instead it just comes across as a dud after all the anticipation that they built up.

[Madner Kami]

It's pretty much the worst possible constellation of directors:

You have a director that is legendary at setting up more plot threads then a colony of silk-worms during metamorphosis (and he is also legendarily bad at unraveling the threads, but this ain't that bad as long as at least some threads merge into a final conclusive goal; the remaining threads can always be used to create more installments or fan fiction).
The next installment gets a director that sets out to so thoroughly subert all expectations, that his declared goal is to cut off every single plot thread that is still dangling, which means in this constellation, he is going to cut off every single plot thread, because they were all left dangling by the first director.

You get one movie setting up nothing but expectations and you get a follow-up movie that is nothing but dismanteling and undermining expectations. One director creates a cozy play-rug full of beautiful motives that one can't resist but step on and the other director pulls that rug right out under you the very moment you tread on it. It can't get worse, really.

[clearspira]

For me, the issue with Rey's parents being nobody is that the films had drawn that mystery out for far to long and it was built up, both in and out of universe, that her parents were important only for Last to come out and say that her parents were no one of any importance. If her parents were nobodies then that SHOULD have been addressed at the end of Awakens so the films could set the foundation for the rest of her character arc.

Once again, I'm forced to go back over to Mara Jade and why she is, IMO, the better of two characters. Like Rey, there is a mystery to Mara's past as Heir raises the question of who she is, why does she hate Luke and what is her connection to the Force? All of these questions are answered towards the end of Heir as Luke manages to push just the wrong button at the wrong time and she lets him know exactly who she is and why she hates him. She is one of Palpatine's personal assassin's, she was a Force user who could hear and carry out Palpatine's commands from anywhere in the galaxy and after Palpatine's death and the fall of the Empire she was forced to go on the run and come which pretty much ruined her life.

All this takes about 1 or 2 minutes to go over and it helps to set up her journey for the rest of the series as Heir got the questions out of the way and spent the rest of the Trilogy developing her character. Over with DST it took 2 movies just to get a basic answer of who Rey's parents were and it's less then a minute of dialogue that doesn't answer ANY of the questions we had about her.

How is she so strong in the Force, what's her connection to Luke, why do Han and Leia treat her like a daughter the moment they met her, why is Ren so obsessed with her, why does she fall for Ren's BS over Luke's when the two have barely known each other for a day and how does she know how the use a lightsaber so well?

Her parents being junkies who sold their kid for a fix doesn't answer ANY OF THIS!!! In fact the Only explanation we get for why she is so good with her powers is that because of her Force Bond with Ren but this is bad because A) I had to looking through subliminally material in order to find out about this which is something you should NEVER do. And B) It undercuts Rey's character and what little growth she has as none of the abilities she uses are her own but rather is something she stole from someone else who did all the hard work.

Mara's skills in Legends are ones she earned after Years of training, both before and After she became a Jedi. She was skilled as skilled as she was with a Lightsaber because she trained with one since she first learned how to walk and she's powerful in the Force because she was trained in it for her whole life.

Rey's powers are ones she stole and the writers are allowing her to take the short cut at every opportunity. In other words, Rey is taking the quick and easy way to power instead of dedicating her mind and body to learning the ways of the Jedi which is peace of mind and hard work. In other words, the filmmakers are taking the lessons of the Sith and applying it to the light side of the Force.

One argument I've heard in defense of Rey and why she is so powerful is because she is a Grey Jedi and thus is more powerful then a Sith or Jedi... Except that's not how it works. Speaking from my own personal experience Grey Jedi's often came off as less powerful then most Sith or Jedi because they could never fully commit to either side. A Grey Jedi may, for example, be able to use Force Lightning and Force Heal but both are usually weaker then what a Sith or Jedi can do with those respective powers. The reason for this is, as I remember, they could not fully embrace hate for the Force Lightning to really hurt anyone and they were filled with to much hate really heal anyone.

While one can become and remain grey your power would always be dwarfed by those who had fully embraced either the Dark or Light sides of the Force.

One explanation the films try to get in is that the Force Choose Rey to be Ren's equal because she was the one destined to stop him. While the Force is stated to be self aware it was, in both the films and the original EU, incapable of Giving Powers to anyone both sides would have to learn how to use these powers.

And this remained true in Star Wars Rebels where Ezra and Kadan required years of training to get to where they are. Even Sabine, someone who was trained how to fight with several different weapons, was clearly out matched by characters who WERE trained how to use a lightsaber and was shown to be out classed by Kadan who had the Force on his side and was trained for years.

This is why many fans, myself included, find Rebels to be the best of the Disney Era so far, as it has stuck the closest to the core themes of Star Wars. I still find it to be a bit weaker, especially when compared to both Clone Wars series but it's characters would have fit right alongside the characters from the Lucas Era. Which makes sense as most of the writers from that series worked on The Clone Wars which was clearly a huge part of the Lucas Era.

My problem with Rey being a grey Jedi is that they have never been referenced on screen. For seven movies now it has been light side and dark side only. There has never been a mention of being half and half. If the eighth film goes with that it isn't going to go down well for film only fans.

[Wargriffin]

The problem with Grey Jedi... is its just a Jedi whose not in the Order anymore, for all thier moral grand standing they still live by the Jedi code

Cause While Lucas has allowed alot more EU to filter in, He has remained consistent on one aspect... The DARKSIDE is not a toy you use to get super awesome powers 'IE the EU where EVERY force user used lightning cause Lightning was KEWL!' Basically GL has always been adamant you don't game the Darkside

Even Zahn mocked the EU's habit of giving the Jedi Sith like powers strictly cause it fixed their problems for them or being honest Dark side power lend themselves to over the top action.

So no The concept of introducing someone whose half and half wouldn't be consistent in the Film Universe

[Worffan101]

Rey having no parents is like Luke's dad being Darth Vader. Luke idolized his father and had this idea about paying Vader back for killing his dad, so the reveal challenged his character on a deeply personal level. In the same way, Rey's ONLY defined personality trait is that she's obsessed with her parents caring about her and being somebody important. So being forced to confront the truth that she secretly knows, that they were fucking nobody and left her in the lurch to go do hookers and blow, challenges Rey in the same way.

the problem is the rest of the movie is such hot garbage that the plotline has zero emotional impact.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I think it's also supposed to tie in with the perils of trying to harness the power of the force.

So yeah, buddhism.

[Winter]

In regards to Rey's backstory one thing that bugs me is that it leaves Very little in the for character development. Forget about the implications of Rey's parents being either people of importance or nobodies, in the end how does that effect REY'S character development on a meta level and instead ask the question How will this effect Rey going forward.

There are really only two possible outcomes, either the film sticks to it's guns and her parents really are nobodies or it retcons Last's big reveal and instead goes with Her Parents Are Somebodies angle. Neither option really allows for that much character development or character depth.

If her parents are nobodies then Episode 9 will most likely have to ignore that point meaning we wasted two movies building up a mystery instead of developing her character. If E9 instead decides to go with her parents were someone of importance then it will mostly likely over ride her character arc instead of focusing on her.

I think what should have been done here, and this is Very much just my opinion, is that Rey isn't some nobody from nowhere but instead of asking the question of Who is Rey's parents the question is who is Rey. And we learn everything there is about her when she is confronted by Ren towards the end of Awaken. In the interrogation room things start off pretty much the same as it was in the movie right up until Ren removes his mask, upon seeing him Rey say, rather somberly, "Hello Ben."

And after this we learn that Rey was, in fact, one of Luke's students and that she was also friends with Ren before he fell to the Dark Side. This then explains Everything, why is she so good with a Lightsaber, who is she so strong in the Force and you why she related with Finn and understood his reasons for wanting to run, because she did the same thing.

She did try to protect the school but got scared and ran and went for a place to hide, hence why she was on Jakku, (which in this version is more like the Junkyard planet that Lucas had originally envisioned instead of a Tatooine rip-off). You can keep most of her scenes completely intact with just a few changes in dialogue, all of which are related more to her parents.

And with this change Rey is given much more agency in her story and more of a personal drive as the story forces her to confront the traitor and makes her the one to find Luke all the more important. This would make Rey's story one of personal redemption as she, like Luke, is in a self imposed exile for her cowardness even though she is really the only one blaming herself for this mistake.

This also would allow Ren to be further fleshed out as while Rey blames herself for her cowardness she is the only one willing to call Ren out on his BS. Han, Leia and Luke all blamed Snoke for Ben's downfall but Rey sees it as his fault and that he was always a bit of a twat. This isn't presented as the true answer but rather just how Rey sees it, from her point of view, Ren gave into the Dark Side by his own free will. Whether this is true or not is left up to the viewer to decide but it does give Snoke less critic and also works as set up to Ren killing and usurping Snoke later.

This gives Rey more character depth and makes her journey throughout the films all the more personal for her as she finds that she cannot turn her back on the galaxy again and does what she can to stop the First Order and Ren himself. No one is blaming her for her running away except HERSELF and this means that facing Ren is her facing her personal demons.

[MyUserName]

No.

It wasn't planned out. It clearly was not planned out from the start. There is such a tonal and narrative dissonance between the first and second movies that disrupts the overall narrative and weakens both films.

The prequel trilogy is a tragedy. The Original trilogy is a hero's journey. The sequel trilogy... is a failed marketing product that undermined itself through it's failure to plan out its themes and story.

Then you get into Identity politics, man bashing, Mary Sue-ing, Darth Emo-ing, Death Star rehashing... and a thorough contempt for everything the first two trilogies stand for and accomplished.

The sequel trilogy stands alongside the Spider-Man Clone Saga, The New 52, and Marvels ultimates series as a failed reboot/re imagining of a popular franchise. It is not a follow up as it fails to honor the original stories and themes. So no, it definitely will not stand the test of time.

The DCEU is far more likely to stand the test of time. Lets face it, much of the hate comes from Pavlovian type conditioning from the Disney owned/shilling media. As time goes on, and society grows older and comes back to those films they will likely develop more respect in pop culture. Time has that effect on films where, when media hype about them dies, society begins to view them through their own merits or lack thereof. This is why I believe TLJ will actually lose followers as time goes on.