STD - The War Without, The War Within

[MightyDavidson]

So, not having read any of this discussion....

You're telling me that they know Ash is really Voq, a Klingon altered to look human, and there for the expressed purpose of killing them and stealing Discovery, and they don't just throw him back in the brig once his mental problems are sorted out? I'd expect more common sense out of Janeway or Archer. Why would you ever expect the Ash persona to be dominant here? Unless you had a telepath read his mind to determine that was indeed the case, he should never be allowed out of the brig, save to be transferred to a penal colony. And I don't recall the review mentioning Sarek mind melding with him.

And even if you could be 100% certain that the Ash persona was in control, are we forgetting the attempted murder of Michael just a few days prior? Unless that somehow earned him a pardon.....

How the heck is it even possible for Ash to BE Voq? A medical scan would've revealed the deception as soon as they got him on board the Discovery and any device that would've hidden his Klingon life signs would've been far to large for him to carry without anybody noticing. I mean the Discovery crew used a device like that when raiding the Klingon flagship and it was roughly the size of a small television. Are Klingon matriarchs magic now?

[RobbyB1982]

How the heck is it even possible for Ash to BE Voq? A medical scan would've revealed the deception as soon as they got him on board the Discovery and any device that would've hidden his Klingon life signs would've been far to large for him to carry without anybody noticing. I mean the Discovery crew used a device like that when raiding the Klingon flagship and it was roughly the size of a small television. Are Klingon matriarchs magic now?

It was super extensive surgery. They didn't just alter his face cosmetically as we often see Trek characters do for a one episode infiltration mission, they did surgery on his internals too. They did things like cut his heart into pieces, flay his skin, shorten his bones and spine, remove the redundant Klingon bits, and add in a whole bunch of human DNA and memory patterns. It's why there's a second personality in the first place.

They basically cut him up and put him in a human suit. Even a tribble probably wouldn't recognize him at that point.

The extensive work left scar tissue, but that was attributed to torture, rather than an unheard of one time complete inside and out ridiculous medical procedure that crushed everything in his body.

[MightyDavidson]

How the heck is it even possible for Ash to BE Voq? A medical scan would've revealed the deception as soon as they got him on board the Discovery and any device that would've hidden his Klingon life signs would've been far to large for him to carry without anybody noticing. I mean the Discovery crew used a device like that when raiding the Klingon flagship and it was roughly the size of a small television. Are Klingon matriarchs magic now?

It was super extensive surgery. They didn't just alter his face cosmetically as we often see Trek characters do for a one episode infiltration mission, they did surgery on his internals too. They did things like cut his heart into pieces, flay his skin, shorten his bones and spine, remove the redundant Klingon bits, and add in a whole bunch of human DNA and memory patterns. It's why there's a second personality in the first place.

They basically cut him up and put him in a human suit. Even a tribble probably wouldn't recognize him at that point.

The extensive work left scar tissue, but that was attributed to torture, rather than an unheard of one time complete inside and out ridiculous medical procedure that crushed everything in his body.

That level of surgery would have killed him dead, I can suspend my disbelief for quite a bit but not that. Especially since it doesn't really fit the plot as it's given, since every other Klingon has turned on him to side with the new Klingon leader save for the Klingon lady who loved him. The Klingon lady whom the new Klingon leader murdered simply because for liking Voq.

I mean I liked Discovery for the most part but this is Threshold level of stupid. If the Klingons were capable of pulling something like this they'd have eliminated the Federation by now and the Romulans and Cardassians as well, since they'd be able to send undetectable spies into their midsts with relative ease.

[RobbyB1982]

Yes, its incredibly stupid.

But it is the reason they gave for why he wasn't immediately noticed as a Klingon.

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.

[Valikdu]

So now we know why Klingon armor looks like it belongs on the Dark Eldar, because they are Dark Eldar now

[MightyDavidson]

Yes, its incredibly stupid.

But it is the reason they gave for why he wasn't immediately noticed as a Klingon.

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.

But they WOULD have noticed he's a Klingon. There's still Klingon DNA in there after all, they couldn't possibly have replaced all of it. He'd have read as an incredibly maimed Klingon barely clinging on to life sure but a medical scan still would've told them that this man's a Klingon.

[clearspira]

Perhaps someone should have introduced him to Lorca's tribble. Did it never get near him or what?

[Formless One]

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.

Assuming you are being sarcastic (and considering the tone of literally every DISC discussion that seems to happen on this website it seems like a safe assumption) you do realize that literally every Star Trek series has had one or more episodes that depicted torture, right? TOS gave us the agony booth, just to name the most famous example from that show. TNG gave us the most realistic torture depiction in Chain of Command and its famous "five lights" scene. In DS9 Odo was tortured by Garak. Archer got beaten up in captivity more times than I can count. And Voyager of course tortured the audience with Threshold. (But more seriously, in Equinox JANEWAY tortures a prisoner to get information out of him. Because of course she does.)

Seriously, Star Trek has a shocking history of not shying away from this topic despite (or perhaps even because of) the utopian tone of the franchise. It makes it easy to identify the bad guys (or in Janeway's case.... um... to show why she shouldn't be in command, I guess ).

[MightyDavidson]

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.

Assuming you are being sarcastic (and considering the tone of literally every DISC discussion that seems to happen on this website it seems like a safe assumption) you do realize that literally every Star Trek series has had one or more episodes that depicted torture, right? TOS gave us the agony booth, just to name the most famous example from that show. TNG gave us the most realistic torture depiction in Chain of Command and its famous "five lights" scene. In DS9 Odo was tortured by Garak. Archer got beaten up in captivity more times than I can count. And Voyager of course tortured the audience with Threshold. (But more seriously, in Equinox JANEWAY tortures a prisoner to get information out of him. Because of course she does.)

Seriously, Star Trek has a shocking history of not shying away from this topic despite (or perhaps even because of) the utopian tone of the franchise. It makes it easy to identify the bad guys (or in Janeway's case.... um... to show why she shouldn't be in command, I guess ).

I also recall Patterns of Force where Kirk was whipped by Nazis.

[clearspira]

Also the show wanted some of that sweet Game of Thrones torture porn that Trek is so well known for.

Assuming you are being sarcastic (and considering the tone of literally every DISC discussion that seems to happen on this website it seems like a safe assumption) you do realize that literally every Star Trek series has had one or more episodes that depicted torture, right? TOS gave us the agony booth, just to name the most famous example from that show. TNG gave us the most realistic torture depiction in Chain of Command and its famous "five lights" scene. In DS9 Odo was tortured by Garak. Archer got beaten up in captivity more times than I can count. And Voyager of course tortured the audience with Threshold. (But more seriously, in Equinox JANEWAY tortures a prisoner to get information out of him. Because of course she does.)

Seriously, Star Trek has a shocking history of not shying away from this topic despite (or perhaps even because of) the utopian tone of the franchise. It makes it easy to identify the bad guys (or in Janeway's case.... um... to show why she shouldn't be in command, I guess ).

I also recall Patterns of Force where Kirk was whipped by Nazis.

Indeed, brutally so, to the point of seeing the welts on his back. Torture porn is something that even I will admit that STD doesn't have as a feature.