TOS: The Enemy Within

[Makeshift Python]

There may have been a female governor elected in the 20s but that doesn’t change that so many across the country still thought women didn’t have what it takes. No doubt many gave her a lot of flack.

[TrueMetis]

Like I said, men at the time didn’t know better. Saying women can’t be captains is likely because men thought women were “too emotional” to be able to have the right composure and decisiveness in making command decisions (which is why so few women were in power). I don’t think we ever see a woman in command until TAS and that’s just because all the men were immobilized.

Some did, else how do you think more progressive morals became common place? They didn't come out of nothing. At any given time you want to pick when horrible shit happened there were people who recognized the horrible for what it was and tried to do something about it.

Though even if that were true and every man in 60's thought that way, who cares? Since when is "many people had a bad idea" a defence of a bad idea? A bad idea is a bad idea, shitty morals are shitty morals, and "subjective morality" is just a shitty excuse that is, quite rightly, not applied anywhere else.

Were my neighbour to beat his wife because she burnt dinner and he considered that morally acceptable no one sane would say "well those are just his morals you can't judge him by our morals standards" but make it the same thing but 60 years ago and saying "well those are just the morals of the time you can't judge them by our morals standards" is suddenly acceptable? Nah fuck that.

[Makeshift Python]

Like I said, men at the time didn’t know better. Saying women can’t be captains is likely because men thought women were “too emotional” to be able to have the right composure and decisiveness in making command decisions (which is why so few women were in power). I don’t think we ever see a woman in command until TAS and that’s just because all the men were immobilized.

Some did, else how do you think more progressive morals became common place? They didn't come out of nothing. At any given time you want to pick when horrible shit happened there were people who recognized the horrible for what it was and tried to do something about it.

Though even if that were true and every man in 60's thought that way, who cares? Since when is "many people had a bad idea" a defence of a bad idea? A bad idea is a bad idea, shitty morals are shitty morals, and "subjective morality" is just a shitty excuse that is, quite rightly, not applied anywhere else.

Were my neighbour to beat his wife because she burnt dinner and he considered that morally acceptable no one sane would say "well those are just his morals you can't judge him by our morals standards" but make it the same thing but 60 years ago and saying "well those are just the morals of the time you can't judge them by our morals standards" is suddenly acceptable? Nah fuck that.

I’m not disputing that. There were obviously people that knew better, it’s just that sexist attitudes were far more prevalent in the old days. Even today women still need to fight preconceived notions of women that are still passed on.

[Yukaphile]

We're not disputing that either. If you wanna know what I think is the greater brainwashing, it's what happens in a police state when they control nearly 100% of the news, so your senses can be fooled, and you act on faulty information. That's regardless of gender, yet I've seen people act as if in a police state patriarchy that somehow women are still "perpetrators of crimes against humanity," and for the life of me, I cannot understand how, given in these nations, gender roles are much more ingrained into the population, and women are the more helpless, and can be tricked into supporting something against their best interests, yet to hear people talk, you'd think they're equivalent to murderers and sexual abusers. It's madness how anyone can think that way.

[Zoinksberg]

We're not disputing that either. If you wanna know what I think is the greater brainwashing, it's what happens in a police state when they control nearly 100% of the news, so your senses can be fooled, and you act on faulty information. That's regardless of gender, yet I've seen people act as if in a police state patriarchy that somehow women are still "perpetrators of crimes against humanity," and for the life of me, I cannot understand how, given in these nations, gender roles are much more ingrained into the population, and women are the more helpless, and can be tricked into supporting something against their best interests, yet to hear people talk, you'd think they're equivalent to murderers and sexual abusers. It's madness how anyone can think that way.

This is related to the episode in question, how?

[Yukaphile]

Off topic. Let's discuss something else from the episode then. What do you guys think of the two Kirks?

[Yukaphile]

Personally, the evil one... just doesn't gel with me, and not because Shatner overacts. It feels like because it's set very early in the series run, it doesn't have the depth it would later with hallmark episodes near the end of Season 1, which to me is the pinnacle of TOS.

[Yukaphile]

Why would an evil Kirk be a coward? Why wouldn't he be super brave? Reckless, aggressive to the point he doesn't care if he dies?

[Makeshift Python]

Why would an evil Kirk be a coward? Why wouldn't he be super brave? Reckless, aggressive to the point he doesn't care if he dies?

Well as the episode lays out the so called “evil” Kirk is fearful because he’s lacking the “good” side of Kirk that has the intellect to keep that fear in check. In a lot of ways it subverts the idea of a “good” and “evil” side of people by explaining that they’re all just complimentary components that make up the person whole. “Good” Kirk in the end helps temper the “Evil” Kirk into seeing that they both ultimately need each other in order to survive.

[Yukaphile]

I dunno. I think fear is good, despite what Yoda says. Fear can help you make good decisions that save your own life, or protect the safety of others. This strikes me as... Gene being Gene. My "perfect humans" will never be afraid! Only their evil halves are terrified!