DIS: “Will You Take My Hand?”

[Yukaphile]

Crimes against humanity are crimes against humanity, period, no matter the attitudes of those in charge. And you aren't a criminal unless you're actually doing something bad. Just holding mistaken beliefs doesn't cut it.

[Karha of Honor]

If I may take a moment to talk about the actual episode...

The Federation offers Georgiou her freedom in exchange for doing this mission, and then for abandoning it. My question is: What legal right did the Federation have to hold her in the first place? She hadn't broken any Federation laws. As Emperor, the acts she committed in the Terran Empire weren't crimes. Even if they were crimes against the Empire, that's not under Federation jurisdiction and the Empire made no extradition request. It's one thing to restrict her movement on the ship, that's SOP for non-service members (especially foreign ones), it's something else to declare her a prisoner without due process.

The next episode will have some splainning to do.

[clearspira]

you know what Disco can go die in a fire. 12 Minutes of teasing Spock, some character goes I was expecting to see him. I Turned it off after this line "Sometimes its wise to keep our expectations low commander, that way we're never disappointed". that is word for word the line in this show it is super easy to see that as line spoken to me the audience. at that point, you don't deserve my time. If you are going to tell me to expect less from you. Why am I wasting my time with you, when I could be doing ANYTHING ELSE. why would you use those exact words here?

Very true, mate. Let us pray that STD makes it no further than than season 2.

You don't have to watch it, i am sure it will be easy to ignore.

Ignore that my favourite franchise is rotting. Yeah, that'll work.

Galaxy is coming. What do you mean rotting?

There has not been a single decent piece of Trek since midway through season 4 of ENT nearly twenty years ago. Why should I have any hope for this?

May 2005 is not that close to 20.

As if a couple of years matters to the point I am making. The fact is that Trek has been shit for a long time and just because Galaxy has a recognizable face in it does not mean that it will be good.

[clearspira]

If I may take a moment to talk about the actual episode...

The Federation offers Georgiou her freedom in exchange for doing this mission, and then for abandoning it. My question is: What legal right did the Federation have to hold her in the first place? She hadn't broken any Federation laws. As Emperor, the acts she committed in the Terran Empire weren't crimes. Even if they were crimes against the Empire, that's not under Federation jurisdiction and the Empire made no extradition request. It's one thing to restrict her movement on the ship, that's SOP for non-service members (especially foreign ones), it's something else to declare her a prisoner without due process.

Anyone who has been following this show behind the scenes knows that season 2 has been completely rewritten due to the negative backlash of season 1. Mirror Georgiou is the equivalent of the Temporal Cold War that Manny Coto had to deal with when he took over ENT - a dead idea that no longer has relevance.
The original idea for this character was not what you saw on screen in s2 ep1.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah. I mean, Season 1 and 2 TNG prove just because you have Picard doesn't mean it's instantly good. And I suspect that's CBS's mindset. You need a strong writing team to MAKE it good. They do not have that.

[Karha of Honor]

As if a couple of years matters to the point I am making. The fact is that Trek has been shit for a long time and just because Galaxy has a recognizable face in it does not mean that it will be good.

It's fairly vibrant right now, i guess, just not your flavour...

[clearspira]

As if a couple of years matters to the point I am making. The fact is that Trek has been shit for a long time and just because Galaxy has a recognizable face in it does not mean that it will be good.

It's fairly vibrant right now, i guess, just not your flavour...

If you mean ''we have plenty that is passing itself off as Star Trek'' then yes, I agree. We have plenty of that. Plenty of fake Star Wars too for that matter.

[clearspira]

Yeah. I mean, Season 1 and 2 TNG prove just because you have Picard doesn't mean it's instantly good. And I suspect that's CBS's mindset. You need a strong writing team to MAKE it good. They do not have that.

Agreed.

[Karha of Honor]

As if a couple of years matters to the point I am making. The fact is that Trek has been shit for a long time and just because Galaxy has a recognizable face in it does not mean that it will be good.

It's fairly vibrant right now, i guess, just not your flavour...

If you mean ''we have plenty that is passing itself off as Star Trek'' then yes, I agree. We have plenty of that. Plenty of fake Star Wars too for that matter.

It's real and it sucks. Not in my headcanon, but Disney SW is real.

[pilight]

During times of war Due Process is more of a "nice thought". Lincoln had a lot of people jailed for being Confederate sympathizers. When Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Roger Taney ruled that Lincoln could not suspend habeas corpus, Lincoln (allegedly) issued an arrest warrant for him, though it was never served. WWII, FDR allowed thousands of civilians to be detained because they looked like the enemy. And these are the actions of people we consider "the good guys".

A quick answer is that the Federation could pretty much do whatever they wanted. A more legally sound answer would be that this person is attempting to impersonate a Starfleet officer, which would be extremely illegal even in times of peace. She would have no way to defend this as she would continue claim to be Philippa Georgiou, who is deceased. As they already have someone else on the ship who has admitted to being a Klingon infiltrator (and a Klingon prisoner who corroborated that claim) it's not a difficult charge to make. Attempting the "I'm from an alternate universe" defense would not have gone over very well, I am thinking.

Claiming that crimes against humanity aren't crimes if you are the leader of a country does not work. But that never really came up and I don't think they were directly factoring that in to holding her.

The Federation is supposedly more evolved than 19th century America or even 20th century America.

Mirror Georgiou didn't try to impersonate Captain Georgiou until the admiral suggested it. She stated rather unequivocally that she wasn't a starfleet officer. 'There's not much of a case to be made there. The "I'm from another universe" defense works just fine when there's a ship filled with people who have been there.

"Crimes against humanity" would be impossible to prove. What evidence does the Federation have? They can't have a trial on this without revealing the existence of the mirror universe, which they explicitly don't want to do.

If Mirror Georgiou had declined to help, or ditched the group when she separated from Tilly, the Federation still would have wound up letting her go.