ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:35 am I think a lot of fans assumed the Vulcans are in part responsible for humanity going from Fallout 3 to Mass Effect in a hundred years. That they've been giving humanity Vulcanian aide ala the U.N. out of their principles of helping a disadvantaged civilization.

Hoshi even points out to a bigot that Vulcan medicine did save one guy who had a terminal mutation.

In that respect, Archer comes off as monstrously bigoted.
Well, it's all but stated that the Vulcans helped. One of the few good lines in Dear Doctor is T'pol noting to Archer that Vulcans came to Earth in 2063, and 90 years later, they're still there.

Going from a place that's post-apocalyptic to a one world government, establishing space colonies, improved health, no more war, etc, that's such a huge and daunting improvement that it strains belief that the Vulcans didn't help. Especially when humans are having joint missions and having aliens doctors and experts help them out in a variety of fields. Archer may not have liked a Vulcan overlooking his dad's work, but by his own father's admission, the Vulcans have been a lot of help.

Soval even does state that they the Vulcans are a bit apprehensive about the humans progressing so fast, and it seems that they are proceeding by trying to make sure Earth is as stable as possible before they expand everywhere. After all, an Earth that has no hunger, disease, war, or other needs has little reason to conquer the Galaxy like the Klingons or Romulans did.

Hypothetically, they were probably telling the humans, "No, that'll blow up your ship. Redesign it and do it again." It makes the humans learn, and prevents casualties, but would seem very frustrating to anyone trying to progress and explore.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:24 am
Fianna wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 am But if Data has no emotions, as he claims, then nothing Pulaski says to him can be cruel, since he has no feelings to hurt (and being friendly to him is thus an equally meaningless gesture, as he shouldn't care either way).
Right. Data doesn't seem to have been conceived as loveable as much as dryly peculiar. Spock's emotionless demeanor didn't at all mean he didn't have something going on up there, but that very much was the case with Data.

And McCoy and Spock weren't friends. McCoy overall is just no-nonsense acting around anybody, and Spock just tends to perturb him the most, to the point that he finds him totally irrational through his exclusive demeanor to logic. But like it's a matter of incompatible communication and relatability, not xenophobia or anything.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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McCoy and Spock were clearly friends, come on.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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Madner Kami wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:33 pm
Fianna wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 am But if Data has no emotions, as he claims, then nothing Pulaski says to him can be cruel, since he has no feelings to hurt (and being friendly to him is thus an equally meaningless gesture, as he shouldn't care either way).
Maybe you can not hurt Data's non-existant feelings, but it tells a lot about you, if your first reaction to a sapient lifeform that you are not familiar with is, being a total ass and dick-head. Argueably, Pulaski did not consider him a sapient lifeform, neither sapient nor alive, but still, her first reaction to such a curiousity is being a condescending piece of shit.

Suppose you come across a computer that talks like a sapient being, reacts like a sapient being and seems to truely be a sapient life-form. Would your first reaction be to intentionally misspell it's name after it corrected you?
Yeah. My first thought upon buying my Amazon Echo was not to tell Alexa that she is a piece of shit and I hate her name.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

Post by Yukaphile »

I mean, she had to have intentionally misspelled his name, because when he corrected her, she sneered, "What's the difference?" As Chuck pointed out, even if he's not alive, just a machine, a machine will know its name. And I believe one episode had Pulaski apologizing and admitting she's trying to overcome her prejudice. I think it was "Where Silence Has Lease."
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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clearspira wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:54 pm
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:24 am
Fianna wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:10 am But if Data has no emotions, as he claims, then nothing Pulaski says to him can be cruel, since he has no feelings to hurt (and being friendly to him is thus an equally meaningless gesture, as he shouldn't care either way).
Right. Data doesn't seem to have been conceived as loveable as much as dryly peculiar. Spock's emotionless demeanor didn't at all mean he didn't have something going on up there, but that very much was the case with Data.

And McCoy and Spock weren't friends. McCoy overall is just no-nonsense acting around anybody, and Spock just tends to perturb him the most, to the point that he finds him totally irrational through his exclusive demeanor to logic. But like it's a matter of incompatible communication and relatability, not xenophobia or anything.
People who aren't friends don't vacation together.
Kirk and McCoy are friends. There's no real kinship between McCoy and Spock.
..What mirror universe? ;/
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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CharlesPhipps wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:35 am In that respect, Archer comes off as monstrously bigoted.
The way Archer was written always bothered me. Not that he was a bigot per say so much as they never really adequately went into the background of it. It'd be different if he was a bad guy, but he was supposed to be the hero that even Kirk would look up to, right? But his rationale for hating Vulcans seems to mainly be that they didn't give his dad all the answers, so he ended up dying before the engine he was working on came to fruition. Which just makes no sense to me. I could understand it better if maybe the reason his dad didn't live long enough was because of some disease or something the Vulcans withheld the cure for (oh, the irony), or something like that. In my own version of ENT that I wrote, I made it so that his dad died testing that engine of his, to make it a little more personal if not really more rational. Of course the reason I even kept the idea of him being bigoted against the Vulcans was so that his character can have an arc that's all about overcoming that bigotry. Never really felt like ENT Archer ever got there except very suddenly in the last season.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:13 pm Kirk and McCoy are friends. There's no real kinship between McCoy and Spock.
I'd say there are some scenes in the third and fourth movies that disagree with that.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

Post by Yukaphile »

There is a genuine affection in their barbs. It's a very complex love-hate relationship. And McCoy has, at times, shown happiness to see Spock, or welcomed him back with open arms. I mean, especially in the movies. Remember when he was carrying his katra? This is something even TMP did right.
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Re: ENT: Two Days and Two Nights

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I think McCoy has a 'I'm allowed to insult you, because you know I'm mostly kidding, but if anyone talks crap about you, I will end them' sort of thing going on with Spock. Note how in Plato's Stepchildren, he instantly tells them to knock it off with making Spock laugh and cry, as he knows that they're hurting him.

There's genuine affection there, just under a lot of layers of gruff.
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