Federal Judge Rules Male-Only Draft Unconstitutional

[Yukaphile]

@LittleRaven Those would be SJW brogressives. The same breed who followed Sanders unapologetically in 2016 and will do so this year. They're really, REALLY dumb.

[Admiral X]

Wonder if all the feminists campaigning against the draft now are what it's going to finally get rid of it altogether. It's funny because for the longest time, the draft was defended on the premise of having the right to vote, and that with rights comes responsibilities and all that.

Personally I'm all for this. I've been campaigning for women to not only have the right to serve their country in the same manner as men, but to have just as much choice in it as men, since all the way back in high school. Wrote a paper on it even.

[Yukaphile]

I don't want a draft. I'm pro-female soldier, very much in favor of stopping sexual assault in the military, and abolishing the Draft. No one should be forced to ask to fight or die for a cause they don't believe in. I mean, there's also the possibility you could get some truly awful people being drafted, who'd then exploit the war for personal gain. WWII was that in droves, and look how well that worked out?

[LittleRaven]

How so?

Ok, let's establish from the onset that this is a purely theoretical argument. Changes in the nature of warfare mean that a draft of any kind in the future is exceptionally unlikely, and if the situation is ever actually desperate enough that we're considering it, then things are desperate enough that things like this ruling will be cheerfully ignored. Drafting women to put onto the front line is something that no tribe (I'm going to use the word tribe a lot here, but what I'm saying applies to every type of human grouping - substitute culture, or country, or civilization, or whatever) has ever done in recorded history, there's a very good reason for that.

It's not because every culture hates women. It's not because women can't kick ass. It's much more basic.

Women are far too valuable to draft.

Men are the expendable sex. A tribe can lose loads and loads of men and be fine. It's not ideal, of course, but it's manageable. Historically, societies expected to lose large numbers of men to dangerous professions - mining, logging, fishing...and of course, warfare. Any time a tribe found itself with a decent sized group of men, they generally started sending them off to conquer their neighbors - very profitable, that...assuming all goes well, anyway.

But no tribe would ever send their women to conquer anyone, no matter how much of a surplus it had, because that would be insane. Not because women can't fight - they can, and often will - but they generally only fight as a very very last resort, because a tribe will almost always protect its women over all else. Not because we all love women more than men, but because women are the heart of any culture. They are the ones that perpetuate the tribe - not just having babies, but raising them, shaping them, educating them in what it means to be....whatever you are. Thousands of generations from every society around the world have happily sent their sons out in droves to earn glory or death on the battlefield, but nobody sends their daughters. When victory is largely determined by how many vases you have left after the war, you don't use vases as ammunition.

However, this does not mean that women should not serve in today's armed forces. We have a volunteer force, comprised solely of people that want to be there. Women have every bit as much right to be there as anyone else, if they want to be and can prove themselves capable. But drafting them is something that we should not (and, I feel confident in saying, will not) ever do.

[clearspira]

How so?

Ok, let's establish from the onset that this is a purely theoretical argument. Changes in the nature of warfare mean that a draft of any kind in the future is exceptionally unlikely, and if the situation is ever actually desperate enough that we're considering it, then things are desperate enough that things like this ruling will be cheerfully ignored. Drafting women to put onto the front line is something that no tribe (I'm going to use the word tribe a lot here, but what I'm saying applies to every type of human grouping - substitute culture, or country, or civilization, or whatever) has ever done in recorded history, there's a very good reason for that.

It's not because every culture hates women. It's not because women can't kick ass. It's much more basic.

Women are far too valuable to draft.

Men are the expendable sex. A tribe can lose loads and loads of men and be fine. It's not ideal, of course, but it's manageable. Historically, societies expected to lose large numbers of men to dangerous professions - mining, logging, fishing...and of course, warfare. Any time a tribe found itself with a decent sized group of men, they generally started sending them off to conquer their neighbors - very profitable, that...assuming all goes well, anyway.

But no tribe would ever send their women to conquer anyone, no matter how much of a surplus it had, because that would be insane. Not because women can't fight - they can, and often will - but they generally only fight as a very very last resort, because a tribe will almost always protect its women over all else. Not because we all love women more than men, but because women are the heart of any culture. They are the ones that perpetuate the tribe - not just having babies, but raising them, shaping them, educating them in what it means to be....whatever you are. Thousands of generations from every society around the world have happily sent their sons out in droves to earn glory or death on the battlefield, but nobody sends their daughters. When victory is largely determined by how many vases you have left after the war, you don't use vases as ammunition.

However, this does not mean that women should not serve in today's armed forces. We have a volunteer force, comprised solely of people that want to be there. Women have every bit as much right to be there as anyone else, if they want to be and can prove themselves capable. But drafting them is something that we should not (and, I feel confident in saying, will not) ever do.

You are missing one very important point: there are 8 billion human beings in the world. We are now in the position where we can send thousands of women to their deaths if we feel like it and not only would it not matter, our overpopulated world would probably be better off. Your views are based on a world that no longer exists.

[LittleRaven]

Your views are based on a world that no longer exists.

So is the concept of a draft - hence the "this is all theoretical musing" disclaimer at the top of my post.

[clearspira]

Your views are based on a world that no longer exists.

So is the concept of a draft - hence the "this is all theoretical musing" disclaimer at the top of my post.

If China or Russia declares war lets see how theoretical the draft is. And yes, unlikely. But by no means impossible.

[Yukaphile]

And let's see how many soldiers exploit the war for personal gain. If that's me, no matter how unhappy I am, I still won't exploit the war for personal gain. It's not an adventure, a free-riding conquest to loot and plunder and take whatever you want. These are REAL FUCKING PEOPLE. This is life and death.

[Draco Dracul]

Your views are based on a world that no longer exists.

So is the concept of a draft - hence the "this is all theoretical musing" disclaimer at the top of my post.

If China or Russia declares war lets see how theoretical the draft is. And yes, unlikely. But by no means impossible.

Completely, because a war with either power ends in about an hour, along with civilization as we know it.

[Riedquat]

Your views are based on a world that no longer exists.

So is the concept of a draft - hence the "this is all theoretical musing" disclaimer at the top of my post.

If China or Russia declares war lets see how theoretical the draft is. And yes, unlikely. But by no means impossible.

What would all those drafted people do? Untrained, unfit people wouldn't be any use to a modern army. Even if they somehow were (and it would only be the army, they'd be even less use to a navy or air force) how are you suddenly going to equip them?