The Mary Sue: History and Context

[Admiral X]

Considering that people like Anita Sarkeesian seem to think a female character encountering any kind of difficulty represents sexism, I'm not terribly surprised that the intersectionalist crowd would consider Mary Sue characters to actually be positive, and react poorly to criticism of an example of it.

[Jonathan101]

And I do remember that the script for TFA was being written at the height of the GamerGate fiasco when Anita Sarkeesian was most well known and meeting celebrities etc, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if Abrams or someone else actually watched some of her stuff and tried to incorporate at least some of it into the story; things like Rey mostly escaping Starkiller Base on her own just reek of that as it's exactly the sort of thing she made videos about, even if in the context of the film it makes no bloody sense and only serves to make Rey look overpowered and the First Order grossly incompetent.

Then, villains who are "dangerous but weak" are often a corollary of a Sue / Stu anyway.

[clearspira]

Then, villains who are "dangerous but weak" are often a corollary of a Sue / Stu anyway.

EXACTLY. Thank you. Its the whole package that makes a Sue. Perfect protagonist, shitty, incompetent villain, the whole universe conspiring to help her. Rey reminds me of Gun Kata Guy in Equilibrium if you want an example of a Stu.

[Jonathan101]

Well, I'd say that THAT character at least had a clear arc and meaningful growth, and came to realise he was fundamentally in the wrong for most of his life- he believed that emotions were bad and ruthless repression were good, but gradually learnt the hard and painful way that it was exactly the opposite.

Whereas with Rey, her biggest mistakes seem to be about other people letting her down and failing to meet her expectations. She doesn't really have as clear an arc of her own.

Eragon is probably still a be utter example of a more Stu-ish guy.

[Jonathan101]

Also "Mary Sue" is a fan-fic term, and the reason Rey specifically fits that description so well is that, even though the sequels are not technically fan-fix, they are similar enough in terms of new writers working with and altering old characters in order to make their new heroine shine more brightly.

[clearspira]

Well, I'd say that THAT character at least had a clear arc and meaningful growth, and came to realise he was fundamentally in the wrong for most of his life- he believed that emotions were bad and ruthless repression were good, but gradually learnt the hard and painful way that it was exactly the opposite.

Whereas with Rey, her biggest mistakes seem to be about other people letting her down and failing to meet her expectations. She doesn't really have as clear an arc of her own.

Eragon is probably still a be utter example of a more Stu-ish guy.

Yeah, there is a reason why Eragon has the rep it does that's for sure.

[Jonathan101]

I've heard that Richard Rahl is a million times worse though.

[TGLS]

I've looked over the old litmus test, and while she shares some traits on the long list, it's a bit of a stretch to call Rey a "mary sue" (though some are impossible to say unless you're Abrams). Heck, putting her in competition in season 1 Wesley is practically no contest.

[clearspira]

I've looked over the old litmus test, and while she shares some traits on the long list, it's a bit of a stretch to call Rey a "mary sue" (though some are impossible to say unless you're Abrams). Heck, putting her in competition in season 1 Wesley is practically no contest.

Funnily enough, I just went through it thinking to myself: that applies to Rey, and that, and that, and that...

[Yukaphile]

@Admiral X Depends on what kind of difficulty it is. If we're talking video games, I'm gonna bring up Princess Peach. Nuff said.