Code Geass

[PerrySimm]

We've already seen enough of the show to tell that what Lelouch is doing is really just making things worse. He's certainly the central character, but "protagonist" is not the right word.

[Myrion]

On the topic of Japan and the downplaying their history:
If the USA was never formed in this show, and thus Commodore Perry never forced Japan to open up economically at cannonpoint, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Japan would still have been isolationist and thus not imperialistic before being conquered?

I don't know, I just feel like the man's absence in this discussion is a sign we're not looking at the bigger picture.

Back before the show was localized, I just straight up called her "Karen". Now I say "Cal-len" since that's the official pronunciation, but I maintain that's kind of dumb. Okay it's an alternate history where Britannia rules the world, China is still imperial and the Japanese are all innocent, but I still think the name "Karen" would've existed all the same.

I'm convinced her name actually is Karen (as thematically, it fits since Karen is both an English name and a Japanese name, thus reflecting her dual identities), and that some producer at the studio who was convinced he knew English insisted that her name be spelled with a pair of Ls. this kind of thing happens more often than you'd think.

...That's just my preference though, and it's not like Code Geass lost EVERYTHING that made it work in Season 2, I was just disappointed compared to season 1.

I know this is late, but I felt it was worth mentioning. From what I understand, when season 1 was more successful than expected, the sponsor companies demanded that everything undergo a soft reset for new viewers, which is why a lot of their ideas had to be crammed into the end haphazardly (looking at you, Charles); this also happens more often than you'd think (looking at you Escaflowne). If one of the voice actors is to be believed, one of the plot points they dropped was Kallen's brother actually still being alive.

[TrueMetis]

We've already seen enough of the show to tell that what Lelouch is doing is really just making things worse. He's certainly the central character, but "protagonist" is not the right word.

Only if you think protagonist is a synonym for hero. Protagonist just means the lead character, which Lelouch undoubtedly is.

Though I am curious, how exactly, does Lelouch make things worse? After all,

Spoiler
He ends up directly stopping what is essentially the end of the world
Spoiler

And at this point is responsible for killing a mass murder and ending the mass murder said murderer was carrying out, and then preventing an innocent man from being executed on bullshit charges. What exactly has he made worse?

(Side note, does this board support spoiler tags? If so I can't seem to get them to work.)

ETA: Thanks TGLS

[TGLS]

(Side note, does this board support spoiler tags? If so I can't seem to get them to work.)

Not really, you're better off using:

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[color=#FFFFFF]Chuck is from Wisconsin[/color]

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[color=#FFFFFF]Chuck is from Wisconsin[/color]

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[Jonathan101]

We've already seen enough of the show to tell that what Lelouch is doing is really just making things worse. He's certainly the central character, but "protagonist" is not the right word.

"Central character" and "protagonist" are literally the same thing.

[Cylus]

I think it's entirely fair to wonder whether Leloch is really making things worse or not, according to the viewer's personal sense of ethics and morality. That will vary depending on each situation.

Naturally, we will eventually get to see some of the consequences, both positive and negative, in due time.

He is still the protagonist, either way, but not exactly a role model.

On the topic of Japan and the downplaying their history:
If the USA was never formed in this show, and thus Commodore Perry never forced Japan to open up economically at cannonpoint, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Japan would still have been isolationist and thus not imperialistic before being conquered?

On paper, that's a reasonable possibility. However, I seem to recall something about Perry arriving on Britannian ships in one of the side materials.

It does seem to be implied that Japan wasn't an empire at this point in the fictional universe, or at least not anymore since nobody ever talks about the monarchy. Either way, the pre-invasion government wasn't entirely innocent either and was instead content to present itself as neutral while exploiting its economic position on the world stage. Maybe we could say the discovery of the Sakuradite is what made the Japanese move away from old-school military imperialism and instead become more...economically manipulative?

If one of the voice actors is to be believed, one of the plot points they dropped was Kallen's brother actually still being alive.

I agree with you about the issues that came up between the two seasons. I've listened to this voice actor commentary above too. It doesn't confirm whether or not that plot reveal was going to happen, but at least suggests the idea was discussed.

[Mecha82]

We've already seen enough of the show to tell that what Lelouch is doing is really just making things worse. He's certainly the central character, but "protagonist" is not the right word.

Only if you think protagonist is a synonym for hero. Protagonist just means the lead character, which Lelouch undoubtedly is.

Indeed. I don't get why some people seem to think that hero is same as protagonist. Character doesn't need to be one to be other. Besides personally I take morally grey Lelouch over all shounen protagonists combined because of how interesting he is as character instead of being idiotic gary stu who triumphs no matter what when logically that wouldn't be possible. It's one of reasons why Code Geass is among my favorite anime from 2000's.

When Chuck called CC magician I chuckled because he hasn't gotten to point were what she is is revealed. Then again IIRC her backstory is in season 2 so it's long way before he learns that but season 1 should already has reveal what she is.

[cloudkitt]

This story does seem intriguing, but goodness the stilt-legged people look terrible.

[Gruntagen]

We've already seen enough of the show to tell that what Lelouch is doing is really just making things worse. He's certainly the central character, but "protagonist" is not the right word.

Only if you think protagonist is a synonym for hero. Protagonist just means the lead character, which Lelouch undoubtedly is.

Indeed. I don't get why some people seem to think that hero is same as protagonist. Character doesn't need to be one to be other. Besides personally I take morally grey Lelouch over all shounen protagonists combined because of how interesting he is as character instead of being idiotic gary stu who triumphs no matter what when logically that wouldn't be possible. It's one of reasons why Code Geass is among my favorite anime from 2000's.

I thought the “All anime protagonists are boring and never lose” meme died years ago after reappraisal of Dragonball Z and the Big Three in the wake of Naruto and Bleach ending and DBZ getting renewed for a new series?

[Mecha82]

It never dies as long as Shounen Jump titles keep getting made into anime including sequel to Naruto featuring Naruto's idiot son. While I admit that there are some actually good shounen anime like My Hero Academia that avoid most cliches of genre and even dare to break those those tend to be minority among genre. Oh and don't let me get started on DBZ because I also have issues with that one as well so yeah, I am not fan. Then again my perspective on anime in general is heavily effected by fact that Cowboy Bebop is series that sparked my love towards it.