Are the Politics in the Star Wars Prequels Really That Bad?

[Wargriffin]

The politics aren't that bad, just not as properly explored as they could have been. Looking back, the Republic is already looking pretty doomed, due to things like mega-corporations such as the Trade Federation having blatant senate representation. That just shows how little people's rights are respected.

As well, showing how little the Republic senate respects parliamentary procedure, as any voice in the Senate can interrupt a motion on the floor, silencing those in peril. Queen Amidala can't even voice her grievances before she is silenced by those with real power, the rich and the wealthy elites. Palpatine may have purposely overturned the apple cart for his own personal ambitions, but the apples were already rotting if swift action wasn't taken to fix all this.

The hilarious implication is without the Sith around, The Jedi and Republic grew stagnant

Palpy just sped the process up, well that was the intent then BW just made it to where the Republic and the Jedi are ALWAYS this way which in restrospect undermines Palpy's accomplishment and the whole point of Bane's rule of Two did what the Sith order for Ages could never do with millions.

But real Talk

Amidala should have plenty of REAL hard evidence to back up Her claim,

IE the Word of the Fucking Chancellor's picked investigators, IE the Two Jedi that brought her there since the Jedi are suppose to be recognized as the Republics peacekeepers

The Ship recordings

The Droid Recordings

The fact that such things can be dismissed just by one set of senators backing up the other requesting a further investigation 'Cause apparently even the Supreme Chancellor already doing that doesn't count' Shows that the Republic is so bloated by bureaucracy that the Nemodians and I forget the other race aren't even hiding the fact its just a stalling tactic so the Blockade can leave.

In the old Legends EU, there was some BS about how Jedi couldn't testify to the Senate or some other hogwash. Either way, the Senate is so corrupt that the Trade Federation can literally get away with murder, and Nute Gunray can talk or pay his way out of court over the next decade leading up to Attack of the Clones.

It's one of the reasons I'm a fan of KOTOR 2. Sure, Revan and the other Jedi won the day against Malak. But as G0-T0/Goto points out, it's made the Republic a mess, and it's teetering on the brink of collapse, only his actions have kept it from collapsing, and the Exile has to do a lot to make it stable again.


youtu.be/Z7qLBnsaENA

Essentially, the Jedi, by hook and by crook, have been keeping the Republic afloat for millenia, and without them, we see how close the galaxy is to plunging into darkness without them.

then again that might just be the narrative problem of the Republic is the "thing" that needs to be saved

If it was capable of saving itself, there wouldn't be much of a story

... Like you'd think after 200 years of constant assaults by everybody and their mother the Republic would have a standing army instead of constantly scraping it the moment the war is more then 5 years old.


I'm not saying they need like Imperium levels of recruitment 'IE The Imperial Tithe you're a member you are either making something for the war effort, or supplying Bodies for the War effort

[Karha of Honor]

Think any mining town from the Gilded Age, with Pinkertons making and enforcing the law, people being unable to leave, not paid in money but in scrips, and forced to work long hours in unsafe conditions to improve profits. I'm talking historical examples from our own history. And, as we see from Solo, Clone Wars, EUs both old and new, slavery for profit is a constant presence in the galaxy. We see wookies enslaved, humans enslaved, etc.

And as The Last Jedi establishes, under the New Republic, the rich and powerful gamble away and party while children work as slaves on Canto Bight. So yeah, things are still shit, even if a dark wizard isn't ruling the galaxy.

Just as bad was the statement you said you can back up. Not qoute unqoute still shit.

So, how good was Rey's life wherein she had to rely on her handing in enough salvage for a quarter portion? Unkar Plutt was the king of that planet for the people handing in salvage. And that's under the protection of the New Republic.

Like i said Disney SW does not exist in my eyes.

[Jonathan101]

The politics aren't that bad, just not as properly explored as they could have been. Looking back, the Republic is already looking pretty doomed, due to things like mega-corporations such as the Trade Federation having blatant senate representation. That just shows how little people's rights are respected.

As well, showing how little the Republic senate respects parliamentary procedure, as any voice in the Senate can interrupt a motion on the floor, silencing those in peril. Queen Amidala can't even voice her grievances before she is silenced by those with real power, the rich and the wealthy elites. Palpatine may have purposely overturned the apple cart for his own personal ambitions, but the apples were already rotting if swift action wasn't taken to fix all this.

The hilarious implication is without the Sith around, The Jedi and Republic grew stagnant

Palpy just sped the process up, well that was the intent then BW just made it to where the Republic and the Jedi are ALWAYS this way which in restrospect undermines Palpy's accomplishment and the whole point of Bane's rule of Two did what the Sith order for Ages could never do with millions.

Not quite, since the Sith the Sith never really "left"- they were always in the background, pulling strings and causing mischief, just less out in the open. In Legends at least a huge number of political crises in recent memory (including a couple of wars) were attributable to Palpatine and Plagueis alone, so who knows what the other Sith got up to.

Not to mention that when the Sith WERE around, the Republic was fighting for it's very existence and to save the galaxy from open tyranny, so not exactly better either.

Despite Lukes' moaning in The Last Jedi, the Ruusan-era Jedi presided over a thousand year peace that was almost unheard of in galactic history- there is a reason this franchise is called Star WARS after all- so it isn't really fair to call them stagnant or for Luke to say they failed so hard they needed to die. The real problem was that they were good, but Palpatine at least was just better. No era of Jedi would have faired much better against him.

But real Talk

Amidala should have plenty of REAL hard evidence to back up Her claim,

IE the Word of the Fucking Chancellor's picked investigators, IE the Two Jedi that brought her there since the Jedi are suppose to be recognized as the Republics peacekeepers

The Ship recordings

The Droid Recordings

The fact that such things can be dismissed just by one set of senators backing up the other requesting a further investigation 'Cause apparently even the Supreme Chancellor already doing that doesn't count' Shows that the Republic is so bloated by bureaucracy that the Nemodians and I forget the other race aren't even hiding the fact its just a stalling tactic so the Blockade can leave.

Recordings can be faked, so that isn't exactly good enough. In fact the recording they have of her minister telling her that "the death toll is catastrophic" WAS a fake to get her to contact Naboo so they can trace her, and while it was faked by the Trade Federation itself the fact that it can be faked at all shows that recordings are unreliable as evidence in the Star Wars universe (well, when it suits them).

[FaxModem1]

Think any mining town from the Gilded Age, with Pinkertons making and enforcing the law, people being unable to leave, not paid in money but in scrips, and forced to work long hours in unsafe conditions to improve profits. I'm talking historical examples from our own history. And, as we see from Solo, Clone Wars, EUs both old and new, slavery for profit is a constant presence in the galaxy. We see wookies enslaved, humans enslaved, etc.

And as The Last Jedi establishes, under the New Republic, the rich and powerful gamble away and party while children work as slaves on Canto Bight. So yeah, things are still shit, even if a dark wizard isn't ruling the galaxy.

Just as bad was the statement you said you can back up. Not qoute unqoute still shit.

So, how good was Rey's life wherein she had to rely on her handing in enough salvage for a quarter portion? Unkar Plutt was the king of that planet for the people handing in salvage. And that's under the protection of the New Republic.

Like i said Disney SW does not exist in my eyes.

Right, whatever. Anakin was a slave on Tattooine, beyond the Republic's borders. The Old Republic and the Jedi weren't exactly hopping to stop that injustice, now were they? Same with how the Zygerrians were enslaving people during the Clone Wars.

Hondo the pirate is free to loot and plunder innocent villagers as much as he wants. Deathwatch is free to ransack innocent planets and take over towns. The Old Republic is a mess, and there's no real mechanism to keep things under control, aside from the Jedi, who are at best overwhelmed, and at worst, hindered by the Republic's corruption to stop it.

[Jonathan101]

The Jedi numbers were limited and it's not entirely clear where the Hutts stand in relation to the Republic- if they are literally outside of Republic jurisdiction, then the Jedi have a limited ability to deal with the problem, since that would be like American police trying to overthrow corrupt governments in South America.

The Zygerrians shouldn't count because they were going back to slavery during the Clone Wars, and when the Jedi learnt about it they put a stop to it almost immediately. Deathwatch too are only operating openly during the Clone Wars and even then they are a bit of a local problem, and the local government doesn't even want Jedi help half the time.

Hondo is more of a nuisance and he, again, is likely taking advantage of the chaos caused by the Clone Wars to cause more mischief than usual, and even then that ends up backfiring on him.

You're acting like the Jedi and the Republic are massive failures just because "bad things still exist"; do keep in mind that the Republic alone is MASSIVE and the Republic and Separatists between them have over a million star systems as members, with only 10,000 Jedi to police them along with local peacekeepers.

Despite my earlier analogy to America, the Republic is really more like a United Nations of sorts- member worlds are more or less free to govern themselves as they see fit within certain legal limits, and are responsible for their own security. Neither the Republic or the Jedi are supposed to be stamping out every hint of evil in the galaxy- they don't and never did have the power to do so.

[FaxModem1]

The Jedi numbers were limited and it's not entirely clear where the Hutts stand in relation to the Republic- if they are literally outside of Republic jurisdiction, then the Jedi have a limited ability to deal with the problem, since that would be like American police trying to overthrow corrupt governments in South America.

The Zygerrians shouldn't count because they were going back to slavery during the Clone Wars, and when the Jedi learnt about it they put a stop to it almost immediately. Deathwatch too are only operating openly during the Clone Wars and even then they are a bit of a local problem, and the local government doesn't even want Jedi help half the time.

Hondo is more of a nuisance and he, again, is likely taking advantage of the chaos caused by the Clone Wars to cause more mischief than usual, and even then that ends up backfiring on him.

You're acting like the Jedi and the Republic are massive failures just because "bad things still exist"; do keep in mind that the Republic alone is MASSIVE and the Republic and Separatists between them have over a million star systems as members, with only 10,000 Jedi to police them along with local peacekeepers.

Despite my earlier analogy to America, the Republic is really more like a United Nations of sorts- member worlds are more or less free to govern themselves as they see fit within certain legal limits, and are responsible for their own security. Neither the Republic or the Jedi are supposed to be stamping out every hint of evil in the galaxy- they don't and never did have the power to do so.

Point is, Republic enforcement of their space is so lackadaisical that they had to form an Army and Navy to get things done, because they overrelied on the Jedi,and defunded the Sector Rangers. This means that the Republic just didn't consider those who lived in the non-Core sectors a priority, even if they were Republic members.

[Yukaphile]

I've read the Bane novels. He was already making plans to sabotage Chancellor Valorum's agenda way back then.

[Jonathan101]

I've read the Bane novels. He was already making plans to sabotage Chancellor Valorum's agenda way back then.

Darth Bane was planning to sabotage the plans of a man who wouldn't be born for another 900-odd years?

[Mecha82]

The Jedi numbers were limited and it's not entirely clear where the Hutts stand in relation to the Republic- if they are literally outside of Republic jurisdiction, then the Jedi have a limited ability to deal with the problem, since that would be like American police trying to overthrow corrupt governments in South America.

The Zygerrians shouldn't count because they were going back to slavery during the Clone Wars, and when the Jedi learnt about it they put a stop to it almost immediately. Deathwatch too are only operating openly during the Clone Wars and even then they are a bit of a local problem, and the local government doesn't even want Jedi help half the time.

Hondo is more of a nuisance and he, again, is likely taking advantage of the chaos caused by the Clone Wars to cause more mischief than usual, and even then that ends up backfiring on him.

You're acting like the Jedi and the Republic are massive failures just because "bad things still exist"; do keep in mind that the Republic alone is MASSIVE and the Republic and Separatists between them have over a million star systems as members, with only 10,000 Jedi to police them along with local peacekeepers.

Despite my earlier analogy to America, the Republic is really more like a United Nations of sorts- member worlds are more or less free to govern themselves as they see fit within certain legal limits, and are responsible for their own security. Neither the Republic or the Jedi are supposed to be stamping out every hint of evil in the galaxy- they don't and never did have the power to do so.

Point is, Republic enforcement of their space is so lackadaisical that they had to form an Army and Navy to get things done, because they overrelied on the Jedi,and defunded the Sector Rangers. This means that the Republic just didn't consider those who lived in the non-Core sectors a priority, even if they were Republic members.

Thats the thing with Republic. It was very core world centric. That makes it that those who are from rim planet had less influence. That makes Palpatine's rise even more impressive since he was from rim planet.

[Jonathan101]

Ladder climbing con artists like Palpatine usually come from outside the "in group", so it isn't that surprising. Both Charles Ponzi and Bernie Madoff had relatively modest beginnings but managed to smooth talk their way into the wallets of people richer and more powerful than themselves.

It's often part of their appeal in fact- the in-crowd thinks that this person is dependent on THEM rather than the other way around, while other outsiders are happy to support and cheer them on because they think the person is "one of them" in some way.

In either case they benefit from perceived problems whereby they get to pose at newcomers offering new, novel solutions precisely BECAUSE they come from outside.

Even then though, do bare in mind that Palpatine had been schmoozing for decades and had built up a reputation as an intelligent, connected but relatively modest and unambitious politician (though the more corrupt ones might have been aware that he could "get things done", like his patron Hugo Daamsk could in Legends canon), so he was able to present himself as a safe pair of hands, especially when it was his world that was in trouble (although that was a bit of "Xanatos Speed Chess" on his part, since his original plan was to drag the crisis out and he honestly didn't intend for Amidala to make it to Coruscant and just decided to mix his plan up a bit).

Basically, being from outside the Core Worlds was actually more of an advantage, not a handicap. Couldn't hurt that nobody on Coruscant knew a damn thing about him or what he was like at home.