DS9 - The House of Quark

[Yukaphile]

I must say, this is easily my favorite Quark episode. Quark proves he can be respectful of other cultures despite how afraid he is, that he really is quite brave for a Ferengi, and that it's not the absence of fear that makes you brave like it is with the Klingons, but the presence of fear, yet the will to go on. All-around excellent. I sincerely think this deserved a 9 or a 10, but eh, it is Chuck's opinion.

Also, I'd had no idea Grilka played Na'Toth!

[Revolverman]

The ending makes even more sense when you remember the part where all these noble leaders are dumbfounded by Quark's financial investigations. D'Ghor has basically found a way to kill off rival houses that for them, they have zero defense or methods to deal with. This allows them to dispose of what may end up being a VERY serious threat to the great houses, AND show others houses that the only end to this tactic is discommendation. Gowron is a shrew Politician. and know how to use the honor code to protect his interests.

Quark gave him and the others a huge out there, and they seemed quite thankful for it.

[slochmoeller]

Quark is kinda interesting in that he's the most well known Ferengi but as he grows he's behind only Rom, Leck and Nog in being un-Ferengi in some ways as he grows as a character. The stereotypical Ferengi would certainly not have done what he did in this episode, willing to sacrifice himself for honor and the truth. They'd never believe Ferengi can be as tough as a Klingon. He's a Ferengi who still believe in profit but at the same time more then that.

Of course this is DS9 which tried to give nuance to various species. Humans that aren't perfect Roddenberry caricatures, Leck the Ferengi who didn't care about profit (following the Ferengi scientist from TNG), d-bag Vulcans, a Klingon chef playing an accordion, and even the bad guys like Weyoun shown trying to overcome their limits.

To an extent, but they also did some damage to the depiction of the Ferengi as well. Remember, DS9 is also the series that liked to pretend the Ferengi military never existed, and we never saw any Ferengi ship bigger than a shuttle. Even the Grand Nagus couldn't have a Ferengi Trade vessel to scurry him around to and from DS9. Rom and Quark railing about the fact that no Ferengi has ever fought, even though being a mercenary has been a profitable profession for humans for millenia, and would make sense for the more violent Ferengi in their civilization.

The actors do fine, and Rom and Nog show what happens if you fit outside the profitable businessman mold, but they also wanted to take it to such an extreme that it's hard to imagine a Ferengi ever fighting.

EDIT: Hell, look at Bok's dialogue with Picard in Bloodlines if you want to see a really good Ferengi villain, one who doesn't care about profit anymore, and is only interested in revenge, and how he carries the scene against Patrick Stewart, showing that he is what any man would be after the death of their child and thirsting for vengeance. Now, can you imagine such a character showing up on DS9 as anything but a joke?

I was talking to my brother about something similar the other day. We were talking about the ferengei scientist on TNG, and how he was regarded as unusual. I mentioned how the issue is they made him like a gentle federation scientist, just interested in the work and the discovery. It would be totally in keeping for a ferengie scientist to be like a Thomas Edison, driven to invention in the name of profit.

I like your example of second appearance Bok as well. But remember, Bok was still speaking in terms of value and restitution: The price for Bok's sons life was Picard's son's life, they only way for the debt to be settled. In that light, it makes sense that Bok resorted to inventing a son for Picard, because else wise the debt could never be collected on.

[Artabax]

Klingon discommendation Ceremony = you have no Honour, therefore I turn my back on you = you are the kind of person who would stab people in the back, therefore I turn my back on you. Even Klingons have a Prime Directive.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, if Kozok really was a proud warrior once, then think what D'Ghor could've done in the next ten years! Hell, the Dominion could've found him a very useful ally...

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I thought I remember hearing on DS9 how there were Klingons or someone that got attacked by a Ferengi ship.

[PerrySimm]

...
More on topic, has any other episode shown the Klingon's having any sort of currency or financial system? It was a central part of this episode I don't recall any other mention of the Klingons finances. Maybe something in The Undiscovered Country about Praxis kersploding wrecking the Klingon economy but even that I'm not sure.

Archer's bounty was 9000 darseks. It seems clear that Klingons do trade, but it's unclear what the rules are if they're really more interested in honour and fighting.

[DisgruntleFairy]

I have often wondered how such 19th century sexism survived into the 24th century. Women are not allowed a seat on the council? They are not allowed to even run a House? These women are essentially Amazons! They should make the Suffragettes look like children in the havoc they would cause trying to get equal rights. Why have these warrior women not gone to war against the men? And unlike human women in the 19th century, Klingon women are allowed to serve as soldiers; they have guns and bombs and Bat'Leths and are crewing warships.

At least with the Ferengi women they are trapped naked indoors with zero access to influence and firearms. That is not true with Klingon women. Sorry but Duras sisters aside they really do not seem to be making all that much of an effort despite having plenty of opportunity.

My answer to this is simple. The rules changes are caught up in committee.

[Yukaphile]

Ron Moore caught this and tried to correct it. Now remember in Star Trek VI Azetbur became Chancellor after her father had died, but that might have been an "exception," not the rule. When it comes to women serving on the Council, that might explain how Gowron offered it as a bribe to K'Ehleyr. She would NEVER be allowed on the all-boys Council unless, as Chancellor, he could sign off on "Special Dispensation" like this episode showed. Come "You Are Cordially Invited" and Moore tries to make it seem as if the women rule over the Great Houses, and the men lead the Council. That was his intent, according to behind-the-scenes information on Memory Alpha. So that could imply some kind of gender roles.

[Wargriffin]

Honestly the Ferengi should have one of the more versatile armies cause when you have the money and your all about profit PMCs should be the go to business especially when you could most likely buy soldiers from other races


If you've ever played a Civ game... the Money faction tends to be one you got to watch out for late game due to the fact they can just Buy an army or three off someone to defend themselves

or in my case... I just bought the army out that came to attack me, and then pumped money into my ally who would always nicely smash the offending faction.