Transformers: The Movie (1986)

[G-Man]

The problem with the Michael Bay movies (well, the first one, I never say any more after that) is that (a) you do not get any real personality for the Transformers, and (b) the people are complete jerks.

I mean, does anyone find Sam Witwicky to be sympathetic? His first action is to try and swindle his way to getting a car.

I also would assume that Transformers:The Movie probably does not work terribly well as an introduction into the franchise. You really have to know the characters a little from the TV show to get into it, even though after ten minutes or so it is mostly new characters

[ChrisTheLovableJerk]

I mean, does anyone find Sam Witwicky to be sympathetic? His first action is to try and swindle his way to getting a car.

A lot of teenagers would be like that; desperate and lying. It might not be morally upright but it's something a lot of teens would do. Hell, given how often my sisters have car troubles I think they might have pulled similar tactics.

[G-Man]

I mean, does anyone find Sam Witwicky to be sympathetic? His first action is to try and swindle his way to getting a car.

A lot of teenagers would be like that; desperate and lying. It might not be morally upright but it's something a lot of teens would do. Hell, given how often my sisters have car troubles I think they might have pulled similar tactics.

Yes, and they would not make good heroes.

[CrypticMirror]

I mean, does anyone find Sam Witwicky to be sympathetic? His first action is to try and swindle his way to getting a car.

A lot of teenagers would be like that; desperate and lying. It might not be morally upright but it's something a lot of teens would do. Hell, given how often my sisters have car troubles I think they might have pulled similar tactics.

It only works for a teen character when they succeed through charisma, if you have to whine your way to a win like Sammy boy did then it just makes your lead look pathetic. You can lose honestly (or at worst, by somebody else's dishonesty costing you the win), or you can win honestly, or you can even pull of a scam like Ferris Bueller, and you'll look like a relatable teen character. But to have to whine to a teacher about pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease gimme a higher grade, and also believing their dad was gonna get them a Porsche when it was obviously just a prank, then it just makes the character look like a pathetic loser. Just because most teens do it, does not mean most teens or their parents/other family, want to be reminded that they are indeed actually pathetic. Sam Witwicky isn't even a lovable loser, he's just a loser.

[thevirtualjim]

Heh, I missed the replies to my comment. Id be happy to discus Galaxy rangers at any time! It was so far ahead of its time, and its story lines were sadly cut short. Id love to see it re-done today on maybe netflix, being allowed to be more serious as it should be.

Unicron: IDK where I got it from, but I was under the impression that all the mechanical planets were factories made by the quintessons, and Unicron was originally made as a kind of trash compactor/garbage scowl to break down any planets that were shut down/obsolete. But like many of the quintessons's creations, it became sentient, as well as the key to turn it on and off - the device that came to be known as the matrix of leadership.

[Mecha82]

Even with it's flaws I find 86 movie really enjoyable (it was my favorite TF movie until Bumblebee) but then again I actually like that they killed off named characters to show cost of war including Optimus Prime but then again I didn't grow up watching G1 cartoon but reading G1 comic books from Marvel instead that had named characters die and Optimus Prime died and was resurrected several times. Then again I also grew up reading G.I. Joe comic book from Marvel that was much more serious than it's cartoon counterpart. I guess it was shock to kids back then that had watched cartoons that weren't used to something like that. Then again I also like 80's hard rock so having OST filled with it also helps.

As far as Unicron goes it might not be huge surprise that I prefer his comic book origin were he is evil god who is in war with good god and creator of transformers race Primus who in turn slumbers inside Cybertron itself. Both pretty much formed they bodies to be that way during time by using asteroids for material. Of course IDW comic books did expand even more that from Marvel version.

With Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime I do feel that writers of cartoon dropped the ball with him. Instead of developing him as character and having him redeem his mistakes (that he clearly regretted by the way) they chose not to bother and to just ended up bringing back Optimus Prime instead. I do feel that Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime had potential to be more than he was allowed to be. Then again I don't hatred towards him that many seem to have for reasons that I had already mentioned.

[ran76]

When Optimus died, I cried. When Ironhide died I got angry. I remember screaming "NO!" at my tv screen the first time I saw the movie.

[Beastro]

Even with it's flaws I find 86 movie really enjoyable (it was my favorite TF movie until Bumblebee) but then again I actually like that they killed off named characters to show cost of war including Optimus Prime but then again I didn't grow up watching G1 cartoon

I kinda did, being born around when it launched. Much of the slaughter flew over my head, but looking back on it now I really appreciate how abrupt and casual it is. All those characters you got to know unceremoniously gunned down like that is a lovely way to relate the costs of war to kids and what it's like for soldiers to befriend one another only for their comrades to catch on in the skull and die right there without a parting word.

but reading G1 comic books from Marvel instead that had named characters die and Optimus Prime died and was resurrected several times.

This is the heart of why I dislike comic books, as it seems they do this more often than other forms of media, but I'm the kind of person who loves what they did with Dark Awakening, but wish they'd left Optimus permanently dead afterwards.

As far as Unicron goes it might not be huge surprise that I prefer his comic book origin were he is evil god who is in war with good god and creator of transformers race Primus who in turn slumbers inside Cybertron itself. Both pretty much formed they bodies to be that way during time by using asteroids for material. Of course IDW comic books did expand even more that from Marvel version.

I wish they'd strike a middle path that is less Zoroastrian where he was built, but is so powerful he's effectively become like an evil god.

Same goes with the creation of the Transformers themselves, where Cybertron and Primus laid the groundwork for their creation, but the Quintessons swept in and began to use the planet to their own ends shaping and framing the beings there to their ends.

In that way the Quintessons are like demiurges, or evil in Tolkien's Legendarium, where they didn't create life themselves, but coopted what already exists and has twisted it. In the case of Cybertronian beings, that has been to cleave their people into two, creating the two factions that continue to fight down through the ages ultimately due to how they were altered.

With Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime I do feel that writers of cartoon dropped the ball with him. Instead of developing him as character and having him redeem his mistakes (that he clearly regretted by the way) they chose not to bother and to just ended up bringing back Optimus Prime instead. I do feel that Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime had potential to be more than he was allowed to be. Then again I don't hatred towards him that many seem to have for reasons that I had already mentioned.

Hot Rod was screwed from the start. He was introduced in the movie and the way the movie went, he had no time to have a proper coming of age hero arc. The result is some newcomer is handed the mantle of Optimus without a sense of him really growing and earning it. I know the movie tried to do those things, but they failed to pull it off, and IMO, he was forced out from being the center of the film by everything else going on in an unfocused movie.

After that he's dumped in the cartoon as the ersatz leader with Optimus gone when no one wants him.

Looking back over it the solution to it all would have been to end the movie with an eye to how he'd continue in the cartoon. At the end of the movie he's grown and demonstrated himself in the movie, but is still inexperienced and a long ways away from becoming the leader the Autobots. Something which makes him require the help of Ultra Magnus who would then be able to express his talent for leadership through the guise of mentoring another as something of a kingmaker.

In the end, I think he suffered from a simple lack of imagination put into him, which is silly given the prominence thrust upon him.