Superman V.S The Elite

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Thing about Superman that everyone who argues how he should kill tends to ignore is that that he is supposed to bring hope and inspire people to be better, not be judge, jury and executioner. When you want Superman who kills and rules over humanity you get one from Injustice video games were he brutally murders people over things like not agreeing with him like he did to Shazam who let me remind everyone is actually just a kid in adult body when he transforms.

In this though, there's a conundrum in that the people he's trying to inspire are unilaterally deciding that they want him to be more effective as they see from The Elite.. I think it comes more down to Superman's own code as far as how he's trying to handle the situation.

From how it’s presented, Superman is probably thinking that because people are scared and angry, they want a simple solution over the REAL solution. I mean, this is something that the comics has done but Superman was able to convince Atomic Skull to finally become a good guy, and now he’s a warden for the jail and it’s stuck. Plus, because he’s not a famous villain, this is something that could stick for a long while before some hack writer rewrites him to being a villain. Superman was able to turn a mass murdering psycho into someone who protects others and sympathies. The Elite erases that opportunity. They don’t solve problems. They kill it.

In these movies what have you, you don't get someone that's incredibly persuasive in their efforts to show people the value of redemption, but just being a symbol for the idea that you don't have to resort to such terminal methods to save the people. The idea is a dilemma between effectiveness and appropriateness and he has to show them that the latter can be honored while still achieving the former. I get that there's merit to the literary devices you speak of. But I feel that in this story he is fighting also to sustain his genuine status as a symbol. He's a humble man of the people all the same with his experience growing up as a man, it's a significant part of his triple persona.

I just think you're making an argument for how effective his methods can be and how smart it can be in-universe and with the writing, while I think the plot more involves him trying to prevent the people from losing their heart, as humans. His reveal at the end is giving nuance to his holistic virtue of needing to show people how whole he is and what the difference is between that and someone that is empty. Like he explains how he didn't put anybody in harm's way, and showed how terrified people were when he did succumb to what they were trying to pressure into.

[FaxModem1]

Can I point out that I hate the animation models in this film? They all look a little too cheap and deformed to me. I get that they were going for different models from the DCAU, but they could have gone for something a bit less...potatoey.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Ironic considering the cartoon caricature of him at the beginning. Definitely a conscious choice to go this direction.

I wasn't particularly fond of Batman vs Dracula's animation, though that wasn't part of the DCUAOM.

[Beastro]

Truth, justice and the American way. The Anerican way being the idealised America that embodies democracy, liberation, free speech etc rather than the America you may otherwise wish it to be.

Superman written well is essentially the US constitution in humanoid form.

He, (and most other superheroes given their American origin) are essentially American in outlook, right down to the "Only help people of your own principled volition only when they are crying out for help, solve the crisis and then return to your place of isolation until needed again".

The only issue is, since 1945, the US hasn't been able to return to its Fortress of Solitude because it accepted the crown of world hegemon.

Thing about Superman that everyone who argues how he should kill tends to ignore is that that he is supposed to bring hope and inspire people to be better, not be judge, jury and executioner. When you want Superman who kills and rules over humanity you get one from Injustice video games were he brutally murders people over things like not agreeing with him like he did to Shazam who let me remind everyone is actually just a kid in adult body when he transforms.

I know it's comic books and my prejudice isn't to expect nuance, but there's more than those two extremes. A job of a profession like a solider is killing people. A lot of soldiers have gone to that extreme, but not all do to make soldiery an outright terrible thing even if it's marred in the eyes of many.

[MrL1992]

This does remind me that if I has the cash to spare; I put in a request for 'Spider-Man: into the Spider-Verse', though maybes someone else has done so already?

[professor_iago]

In almost a decade, I think this is my favorite review.

[Nevix]

I LOVE this movie. It's one of, if the THE most favorite superhero stories of mine.

Superman's philosophy isn't about just being the strongest, as so many bad writers think it is.

It's about doing the right thing, even when you could do something wrong to get a good result, and even when you're tempted to abuse your power, and in doing so, inspiring people to reach for the stars, to make the world better, to do more, and paired with All Star Superman showing how even Lex Luthor comes to understand that philosophy, it's the truth of Superman.

No... the world isn't perfect, but we can damn well keep making the world a better place using good means to get good results.

I. Love. This. Movie.

EDIT:

Definitely top five for me. Possibly top three, and maybe my favorite review too.

Excellent movie, excellent and sincere analysis, and a little humor sprinkled in.

THIS is why I have watched SF Debris for a decade, and will continue to watch the reviews for a long time.

[MithrandirOlorin]

I wasn't a big fan of this movie, I think Superman Unbound is the best animated Superman movie.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I like how Chuck talks about DCUAOM and its more mature themes throwing you for a loop if you're used to the DCAU. So true, so true.

I wasn't a big fan of this movie, I think Superman Unbound is the best animated Superman movie.

I like The Superman/Batman movies, myself. Particularly Public Enemies.

[iwfan53]

I know it's comic books and my prejudice isn't to expect nuance, but there's more than those two extremes. A job of a profession like a solider is killing people. A lot of soldiers have gone to that extreme, but not all do to make soldiery an outright terrible thing even if it's marred in the eyes of many.

To me the the thing is that fighting crime isn't actually Superman's job... it is his hobby.

Nobody pays him to do it, there's no person or organization that has any sort of oversight over where or how he does it, and there's no one who can tell him (or at least no one can force him) to step down and stop doing it because they want to replace him with someone else.

Superman isn't a soldier, Superman isn't a cop, superman isn't even a firefighter, he's a random guy on the street who sees something horrible happening and steps in to try and make the world a slightly better place... just add superpowers.

So when you have stuff like that in mind, there's a very good reason why we should all be glad that Superman doesn't start choosing who lives and who dies, because unlike professional soldiers, he's doesn't have a long list of rules of engagement to follow only his own morality.

Sure maybe Superman won't always slide down into being a tyrant once he starts killing, maybe he'll just realize that if he's going to have this power he needs to place himself under some guidelines /system and allow himself to work directly for the Government and we end up going down the road we see him travel in Dark Knight Returns...

Long story short as SF Debris himself says, the problem of repeat superpowered offenders is a societal problem rather than one relating to the moral choices of the superheroes who fight them.