The Last Jedi Two Years Later

[hammerofglass]

Because she's young and stupid. I already said that. There's no mystery here. She's got a half-formed teenager brain, is emotionally immature for her age, has near-crippling daddy issues, and she regularly makes impulsive choices. That's basically her whole character. Nobody's saying it results in good or well considered decisions.

[clearspira]

Because she's young and stupid. I already said that. There's no mystery here. She's got a half-formed teenager brain, is emotionally immature for her age, has near-crippling daddy issues, and she regularly makes impulsive choices. That's basically her whole character. Nobody's saying it results in good or well considered decisions.

No. She is not written to be young and stupid, she is written to be an all conquering strong woman. She comes off as all this shit because rian Johnson is a hack.

If we learned that Rey's surname was Janeway and Johnson was secretly Brannon Braga all would suddenly make sense.

Star Wars 10: Science officer on board the USS Al-Batani.

Star Wars 11: Voyager.

[pilight]

Of course she tried to reform Kylo. She spent the first half of the film listening to Luke tell her there's good in him and what a terrible mistake it was to even briefly contemplate killing him. She learned what Luke taught her from his own experience. Luke couldn't beat Vader with violence and hate, but was able to turn him with love. His momentary weakness with Kylo, showing fear and hatred, pushed his student to the dark side. Rey took those lessons and reached the obvious conclusion, the way to beat Kylo is to help him follow the path back to the light.

[hammerofglass]

Because she's young and stupid. I already said that. There's no mystery here. She's got a half-formed teenager brain, is emotionally immature for her age, has near-crippling daddy issues, and she regularly makes impulsive choices. That's basically her whole character. Nobody's saying it results in good or well considered decisions.

No. She is not written to be young and stupid, she is written to be an all conquering strong woman. She comes off as all this shit because rian Johnson is a hack.

Dude, the movie is bad enough as it is. You don't have to invent a worse one and assume that they failed to execute it properly.

[Winter]

Of course she tried to reform Kylo. She spent the first half of the film listening to Luke tell her there's good in him and what a terrible mistake it was to even briefly contemplate killing him. She learned what Luke taught her from his own experience. Luke couldn't beat Vader with violence and hate, but was able to turn him with love. His momentary weakness with Kylo, showing fear and hatred, pushed his student to the dark side. Rey took those lessons and reached the obvious conclusion, the way to beat Kylo is to help him follow the path back to the light.

Um, there's no point in TLJ when Luke tells Rey how there's good in Kylo. Like I said at the start I'm re-watching/rereading TLJ for my review and there's literally no point when Luke tells Rey that Kylo still has good in him. He tells Leia that there's still good in Kylo but not Rey. All he does is say that he regretted considering killing him in his sleep.

Before that all we get is him mentioning Ben and how much he A) Should have feared him and B) How he killed everyone at his school. He never once talks about Ben Solo being a good person. Luke even tells Rey that there's no chance at redeeming Kylo from the dark side before she goes off to attempt it.

With Luke wanting to redeem Vader it was because he had been told by Obi-Wan what a good friend he was and wanted to redeem the man he use to be back, the one he had built up in his head for well over 5 years, in universe. Adora wanted to redeem Catra because they had known one another since they were children and are very obviously in love with one another. Asami needed 4 years to even consider the idea of reconnecting with Hiroshi who was her only family member and Zuko had to help Aang, Sokka and Katara with major personal tasks and risk his own life to save them before they even considered giving him a proper chance.

In almost all these cases the characters who are trying to help reform these villains have seen the good person they were or have at least heard it about said good (from the very person said villain killed After their death in Vader's case). Zuko saved Aang from Zhoa and teamed up with Team Avatar to fight Azula, Catra was Adora's closest friend in the Horde, and Hiroshi had raised Asami alone since the death of her mother.

Kylo has NONE of that. Luke has never mentioned the good person Kylo was and Kylo has spent most of the first two films hurting people Rey cares about or trying to turn her to the dark side while insulting her SEVERAL Times. And throughout the films Kylo has shown no interest in being good and has also been nothing but cruel to everyone around him, often for no reason and showing no regret for his actions.

Going back over to Catra and Major spoilers for Season 4 Catra spends most of that season slowly losing her ability to lie to herself and driving the few people who care about/respect her away until she has no one left. As a result of this Catra slowly loses her ability to lie to herself and when Double Trouble who directly tells Catra that the reason everyone leaves her is because she drives them away. And right after that Catra is shown that her army has been destroyed and that everything she worked so hard to achieve has been destroyed she is left with NOTHING and only has herself to blame for it so when Glimmer finds her Catra she basically asks to be killed. For all power she had the thing that hits her the hardest is the fact that the people who love her all now hate her is what truly pushes her over the despair event horizon.

Kylo has NONE of this and has only been horrible for the sake of being horrible. I find Rey's reason to want to redeem Kylo forced because the film gives us no reason for her to want to redeem him OTHER then him being nice to her.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Does she though? That's an honest question, does Rey actually know anything more about Kylo Ren at the end of TLJ then she does Han or Finn, or even Luke?

Well yeah - Ben accidentally mind-melded with her, she got a front-row seat to all his barely-repressed insecurities. She knew his commitment to Snoke's path was paper-thin and wavering, she just didn't have the life experience to know that turning against a Bad Guy doesn't automatically make you a Good Guy because she grew up in a junked AT-AT that only picked up G-rated cuts of the OT which painted good/evil in very simplistic terms; if she'd been able to pirate some HBO she'd have known there's no cure for being a c ...ountry boy, but as it is she just had to learn it the hard way.

[Winter]

if she'd been able to pirate some HBO she'd have known there's no cure for being a c ...ountry boy,

Okay, that was hilarious.

[clearspira]

Because she's young and stupid. I already said that. There's no mystery here. She's got a half-formed teenager brain, is emotionally immature for her age, has near-crippling daddy issues, and she regularly makes impulsive choices. That's basically her whole character. Nobody's saying it results in good or well considered decisions.

No. She is not written to be young and stupid, she is written to be an all conquering strong woman. She comes off as all this shit because rian Johnson is a hack.

Dude, the movie is bad enough as it is. You don't have to invent a worse one and assume that they failed to execute it properly.

That's the thing though: I do not believe I have invented anything. This is based on every interview I have seen with Rian Johnson and Ms The Force Is Female Kennedy.
Rey was NEVER designed to be stupid.

[clearspira]

Does she though? That's an honest question, does Rey actually know anything more about Kylo Ren at the end of TLJ then she does Han or Finn, or even Luke?

Well yeah - Ben accidentally mind-melded with her, she got a front-row seat to all his barely-repressed insecurities. She knew his commitment to Snoke's path was paper-thin and wavering, she just didn't have the life experience to know that turning against a Bad Guy doesn't automatically make you a Good Guy because she grew up in a junked AT-AT that only picked up G-rated cuts of the OT which painted good/evil in very simplistic terms; if she'd been able to pirate some HBO she'd have known there's no cure for being a c ...ountry boy, but as it is she just had to learn it the hard way.

She lives on a world where roaming gangs are the norm. I think she realistically should not have a black and white view of good and evil - if anything, it is surprising that she is as nice as she is. Sorry to lower the tone here, but you just know that on a lawless planet like this rape must be a massive concern. How often can you face that possibility and still be naive?

Also, if the Millennium Falcon i.e. the ship that destroyed the Death Star is something that she cannot recognise even after walking past it for months/years, and if the Force is but a legend that she needs explained to her; then the story of the Original Trilogy cannot be all that well known to her.
These things do not compute. You cannot not know of the Force and still know about Vader, Luke and Palpatine.

[hammerofglass]

Because she's young and stupid. I already said that. There's no mystery here. She's got a half-formed teenager brain, is emotionally immature for her age, has near-crippling daddy issues, and she regularly makes impulsive choices. That's basically her whole character. Nobody's saying it results in good or well considered decisions.

No. She is not written to be young and stupid, she is written to be an all conquering strong woman. She comes off as all this shit because rian Johnson is a hack.

Dude, the movie is bad enough as it is. You don't have to invent a worse one and assume that they failed to execute it properly.

That's the thing though: I do not believe I have invented anything. This is based on every interview I have seen with Rian Johnson and Ms The Force Is Female Kennedy.
Rey was NEVER designed to be stupid.

If we're including interviews he has outright said several times that Rey and Kylo's relationship was written as a romance. Mostly so he could Subvert Expectations and have them never actually get together while taunting the shippers.