Which is worse: Diveristy debater crowd for movie/TV-going culture?

[Mecha82]

Hell, "sweeping cultural changes take time" is yet another reason to refuse a female Vice-President. The VP job is seen as a secondary position, nothing more.

Some times you need to accept that "we want it now"-attitude isn't worth it and slow one step at time is best way to go about it in order to possibly create lasting political change.

[Yukaphile]

At the same time, why should women compromise to being relegated to more of the same old support roles just to beat Trump? Trump has become a political bogeyman to the left. Treating him as Hitler when honestly, both him and Stalin had far more achievements, however evil. Trump is held in check. He's merely accelerating the natural decay of our power structure. So no, I don't buy that women should compromise to being held back to the same old secondary positions of support that patriarchy has forced them into for centuries.

[Mecha82]

Because change takes time. See how current USA is compared to for example way it was after WWII and how that change happened during decades. Woman VP would be step towards eventual woman President so to deny that would be staying in same square because you refuse to go forward unless you get to go straight to certain square.

[Nealithi]

If I have an issue on the diversity in movies/TV it is the focus that is on it. That too much emphasis for the sake of waving a flag is done. Don't make a big deal about skin colour, naming conventions, or who is sleeping with who. Unless it is actually relevant to the story. I mean that in and out of the show itself. As in don't tell me I must enjoy something because female lead(s). I am not going to dislike something because of the gender of the lead or the story focus. But claiming or being distraught over someone not liking something and claiming a bias due to the afore mentioned reasons is going to colour the rest of my choices. Against you.

Mecha82, nothing against a woman in the White House. Nor one of any colour. But I would rather they are there due to merit than a form of affirmative action.

[Yukaphile]

The step, the step, the step! Why do we have to wait! I think it's insulting that the blacks get the quick road to the White House, in large part thanks to a woman, and then, women have to still hack away at that piece by piece, because again, it's indicative to how most people think racism is worse, and I think it's sexism.

[Yukaphile]

Why do you think I didn't vote last year? Because given what many idiot male candidates are saying this year, we're gonna get a female VP. It's inevitable. I've stopped trying. Let the collective screw themselves over and make a clear mark in history that even today, women are still second best.

[Mecha82]

That is no different than that "all or nothing"-mentality that you mentioned in another thread. So either you want woman president before there is woman VP before that or none at all.

[Yukaphile]

It is. I can admit to it. But it's very telling to our society. That sexism is worse than racism. That women have to hack away at the White House while blacks seemed to have a slightly easier time. And of course, that means I have to wait even longer to see a woman win on her own merits. Rather than having it handed to her by a man. Shows how little has changed in the last five decades.

[MissKittyFantastico]

Gonna drop a Seinfeld quote here.

"And this offends you as a centrist liberal?"
"No, this offends me as a fandom nerd!"

Well I was more of a Friends person back in the day. But this thing you're doing of insisting equality be worked towards in a way that's satisfactory to you or not at all, while all the while loudly patting yourself on the back for how enlightened you are, does bring to mind another quote - sadly the author didn't get nine seasons on NBC, but I feel like he knew a thing or two (edited because there are certain words I'd rather not use among strangers):

"We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every" ((African American)) "with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied.""

I'm sure you feel you have nothing in common with those 'white moderates', but I'll be taking my leave now, so don't go to any great trouble to reply. With a small amount of regret I've come to the conclusion that the handful of enjoyable discussions of sci-fi here aren't worth slogging through the toxicity.

[Darth Wedgius]

Yukaphile, you want a female president because you think it's due, right? People like me aren't going to support a female president unless she's the better choice. If Tulsi Gabbard became president I'd be OK with it, but she's probably only slightly more likely to get the nomination than I am.

IMHO, it's too important a job to be given to a diversity hire.

Edit: I'd walk miles through the snow to vote for Condoleeza Rice for the job.