DIS - Point of Light

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

How is Saru racist again?

[Worffan101]

How is Saru racist again?

His entire character is rooted in his species' "nature". Since species is basically used as an allegory for ethnicity or race in Star Trek, the implication that he's a coward because all Kelpiens are cowards it's just their nature, duh, is insensitive at best and very definitely uncomfortable to watch.

It's like how the Klingons got Flanderized until just being a Klingon was enough for a character to be a bland dumb bloodthirsty rageaholic unless loudly and explicitly proven otherwise. Except even worse because there's no Kelpien Martok or Kelpien Gowron or Kelpien Worf, we just have Kelpien-that-boss-Klingon-from-that-bad-ENT-episode-with-the-miners-in-the-desert (I think it was called "Marauders") and a bunch of rando Kelpiens who all have basically the same personality, and that's everything we see of the species.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

How is Saru racist again?

His entire character is rooted in his species' "nature". Since species is basically used as an allegory for ethnicity or race in Star Trek, the implication that he's a coward because all Kelpiens are cowards it's just their nature, duh, is insensitive at best and very definitely uncomfortable to watch.

Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.

Also, Trek doesn't necessarily give allegory to race or ethnicity. If they definitely were then I'd think I'd be inclined to think that Farangis were intended to be a Jewish caricature, but they're respectfully considered outright agents of capitalism. Cardassians for that matter can represent colonialism among western powers.

[Deledrius]

Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.

Okay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.

It's the concept that there are personality traits (they're all cowards, they're all thieves, they're all aggressive monsters, etc.) inherent to the genetic makeup of a "race" at all which is the underlying cognitive generalization that has historically led to much suffering in the real world, and while subtle, is something that a brand new Trek didn't need to lean on for character motivation.

Giving it a physical manifestation in the form of his ganglia is taking what would otherwise just be a generalization and turns it into a sci-fi version of making the debunked and discredited concept of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]"scientific racism"[/url] true. Granted, this is a problem that has existed in Star Trek since the beginning, but it's not a great look. It's why I laugh when I see people calling Star Trek Discovery "woke" or "SJW", because if it is it's by way of parody.

I think the backstory given in Season 2 does some work in undermining this reading, which was a good move; by showing this was all a lie, they move the problems onto the eugenics performed by the Ba'ul antagonists. Unfortunately, it also makes our heroes look like dupes for ever believing in it. :p

[Fianna]

Alien species are sometimes used as a stand-in for different races/nationalities on Star Trek, but there are plenty of times where they're meant to be genuinely alien, and won't necessarily have brains that work the same as humans.

If you go with the idea that aliens always represent ethnic groups, then I'd say the Borg are far more problematic than all the other alien depictions put together.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.

Okay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.

It's the concept that there are personality traits (they're all cowards, they're all thieves, they're all aggressive monsters, etc.) inherent to the genetic makeup of a "race" at all which is the underlying cognitive generalization that has historically led to much suffering in the real world, and while subtle, is something that a brand new Trek didn't need to lean on for character motivation.

Giving it a physical manifestation in the form of his ganglia is taking what would otherwise just be a generalization and turns it into a sci-fi version of making the debunked and discredited concept of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]"scientific racism"[/url] true. Granted, this is a problem that has existed in Star Trek since the beginning, but it's not a great look. It's why I laugh when I see people calling Star Trek Discovery "woke" or "SJW", because if it is it's by way of parody.

I think the backstory given in Season 2 does some work in undermining this reading, which was a good move; by showing this was all a lie, they move the problems onto the eugenics performed by the Ba'ul antagonists. Unfortunately, it also makes our heroes look like dupes for ever believing in it. :p

I appreciate the further deconstruction that signifies that a planet of hats resembles the scientific misnomer of racism.

But yeah, looking through the internet so far I have found no distinguished piece on this character being problematic or even associated with the word racist. Did Feminist Frequency Radio bring it up? Their panel would most definitely ground out that issue. This show came out in a time where it's not that easy to get away with a character like that. Is this a new observational progressive development? Because I'm familiar with planet of hats and have yet to hear anything past aesthetically unremarkable in writing.

The bechdel test is a close example of how the such writing can be a nuisance, but that's again essentially an issue of representation and not just general depiction.

If you go with the idea that aliens always represent ethnic groups, then I'd say the Borg are far more problematic than all the other alien depictions put together.

Go on?

[Worffan101]

Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.

Okay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.

It's the concept that there are personality traits (they're all cowards, they're all thieves, they're all aggressive monsters, etc.) inherent to the genetic makeup of a "race" at all which is the underlying cognitive generalization that has historically led to much suffering in the real world, and while subtle, is something that a brand new Trek didn't need to lean on for character motivation.

Giving it a physical manifestation in the form of his ganglia is taking what would otherwise just be a generalization and turns it into a sci-fi version of making the debunked and discredited concept of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]"scientific racism"[/url] true. Granted, this is a problem that has existed in Star Trek since the beginning, but it's not a great look. It's why I laugh when I see people calling Star Trek Discovery "woke" or "SJW", because if it is it's by way of parody.

I think the backstory given in Season 2 does some work in undermining this reading, which was a good move; by showing this was all a lie, they move the problems onto the eugenics performed by the Ba'ul antagonists. Unfortunately, it also makes our heroes look like dupes for ever believing in it. :p

I appreciate the further deconstruction that signifies that a planet of hats resembles the scientific misnomer of racism.

But yeah, looking through the internet so far I have found no distinguished piece on this character being problematic or even associated with the word racist. Did Feminist Frequency Radio bring it up? Their panel would most definitely ground out that issue. This show came out in a time where it's not that easy to get away with a character like that. Is this a new observational progressive development? Because I'm familiar with planet of hats and have yet to hear anything past aesthetically unremarkable in writing.

The bechdel test is a close example of how the such writing can be a nuisance, but that's again essentially an issue of representation and not just general depiction.

What Deledrius said. It's a tired racist trope.

the Ba'ul retcon just makes it even stupider and misunderstands evolution AGAIN.

If you go with the idea that aliens always represent ethnic groups, then I'd say the Borg are far more problematic than all the other alien depictions put together.

Go on?

Unreasoning horde of alien locusts that invade and assimilate other cultures into their hive mind. If you stretch the analogy it can be interpreted as xenophobic propaganda about the "foreign hordes".

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What Deledrius said. It's a tired racist trope.

the Ba'ul retcon just makes it even stupider and misunderstands evolution AGAIN.

In that case, what I said in response to it...

To refine queryly, is this a progressive development or is it more along the lines of a personal and/or fan gripe? It's a very easy construct to follow, but of all the things I've seen people say about Trek, even Discovery, this is the very first I've heard of it.

Now, here I am just saying; If you take 26 hours of the Feminist Frequency broads reflecting on each episode, if there is a progressively understood problem with Saru, then you would hear their discourse on it resembling a refrigerator going through a metal shredding machine. I would bet that at least once you would find it.

[Deledrius]

Now, here I am just saying; If you take 26 hours of the Feminist Frequency broads reflecting on each episode, if there is a progressively understood problem with Saru, then you would hear their discourse on it resembling a refrigerator going through a metal shredding machine. I would bet that at least once you would find it.

I'm not sure why that show is being brought up, but if you're saying you want someone to listen to it and report back, I can tell you it won't be me.

[LordUltimus]

I kind of thought Saru WAS the Kelpian Worf, as his Short Trek showed him as much more courageous as the other members of his race seen.