thetrueelec wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:21 pm
Yeah but it's never been 'bring back an old villain with no explanation and have him be related to the hero somehow' dumb.
That's literally the plot of The Empire Strikes Back
No it isn't. Vader did not come back from the dead.
And frankly, the reason why Luke being Vader's son works is because nothing in ANH contradicts it besides Obi Wan's dialogue - a problem sidestepped expertly with his ''the truth, but from a certain point of view'' line.
It's like if Dark Empire had revealed that Palpatine was Vader's father, thus Luke is a Palpatine, which they did not do. That's the thing about Disney canon, is that Dark Empire did not do that. That said, we all know my bias is to the original EU, but to play devil's advocate, there is a compelling storyline in the idea that, to use Dark Empire as an example again, Luke found out Palpatine is his grandfather, which Lucas almost went with in Episode III. Granted, some would insist it's a ripoff of Empire Strikes Back, but since most people are hopelessly naive and turn off their brains when watching Star Wars, who cares? I can't speak to the execution of how the new canon handled it, but since Johnson basically killed off Snoke, having Palpatine come back actually adds a nice through-point to the whole saga, giving the film structure (though it gives me the impression it was originally gonna be Snoke who filled this role, not Palpatine). And the biggest complaint I hear past Rey being a Mary Sue is that she's kinda bland. To that end, if they could effectively show off her railing against her lineage, then it would be amazing. A kind of "we don't have to be our relatives" message, which is empowering. That the last of the Palpatines adopts the name of his most hated enemy. I could see how many would enjoy that. It's why I've said over and over I don't exactly hate the new canon or consider it to not belong in Star Wars. It is simply that it doesn't have to come by marginalizing the older fans, and that I find it too derivative for people who said they needed their "creative freedom," which we ALL know is an oxymoron given that they are way too risk-averse these days, and makes the decanonizing pointless. They need "creative freedom?" Rehashing the past is not the way to do so. And say what you want about New Jedi Order, that too many people died, that the aliens felt more suited to Warhammer 40,000, but it was new, and had oversight from George, it was fresh, it was taking the Star Wars art in a new direction, THAT was the "creative freedom" those in charge said they needed. Not what they are doing now. It's more commercial than it ever was under George. And that's where they are failing. Star Wars has become the very popcorn movie franchise it was never meant to be.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
MithrandirOlorin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:08 pm
Maz tells Rey her parents are her past not her future. But she and Han clearly know something they aren't telling Rey.
It's highly possible that they did considering that both Luke and Leia also knew that Rey was Emperor's grand daughter as Luke revealed in TRoS.
"In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.."
- Kulvain Hestarius of the Death Guard
I don't get how you can trash Legends, say it's shit, then turn around and defend what they did here? Ripping off Dark Empire? Again, does Star Wars only belong in a visual medium in your mind?
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
I don't see how RoS is ripping off Dark Empire specifically, all it has in common is the idea of the Emperor coming back somehow, which is not a difficult idea to think independently. How and why he does is different.
Because it's entirely too derivative of the past for people who said they need their "creative freedom," and we know they have a history of plundering what the EU has done, without honoring it. The same approach they have to George. Granted, some may have disliked his story treatments, but it just shows how risk-averse they are. The big issue is that they did not have to throw away the original cast and George Lucas and the EU to make a generational story that is meant to make money, nothing more.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
I also left a comment. The thing is that people who think Anakin was destined to kill the Sith, "bring balance to the Force?" Are just wrong. Bringing balance does not mean "your side wins." Because the Jedi at their most dogmatic are just as bad as the Sith in their own, self-contained way. 10,000 super-light Jedi and two uber-dark Sith is NOT balance. He did bring balance to the Force. Nothing ever had to say it would stay balanced. That's the beauty of the Star Wars universe. The Force itself, generated by life and the chaotic nature of living beings, is not a greater enlightenment, but a curse. You can't market it well, but it really does just escalate the innate conflict the universe is built on, and to that end, imagine if we had superpowers in our world today? It would make all our social problems a thousand times worse, and for the people of Star Wars it does as the long history in the rise and fall of empires and countless wars that have no end in sight where any kind of meaningful change is eventually undone bears out, that it really does feel pointless at the end of the day. In a thousand years, who's gonna even remember or care what you did? Which is why I don't subscribe to the view that bringing Palpatine back is bad or undoes what Anakin did.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
My idea of Balance is Force users not being users of either light side or dark side but being in middle like Bendu from Rebels. In other words, true Grey Jedi.
"In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.."
- Kulvain Hestarius of the Death Guard
