Atlantis: 38 minutes.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

Been a while since I've seen an Atlantis review. A welcome return. This episode falls neatly into a subset of puzzle/problem-solving episodes in the franchise, where there are fairly grounded solutions (at least according to universe rules) that the audience has a chance to solve for themselves. It's something Stargate has always done pretty well.

The problem with the Weir thing, or at least one of them, is that it's not presented as a flaw, the audience is expected to side with the protagonists for no reason other than being the protagonists. Star Trek pulls this stuff from time to time as well. Jellico in Chain of Command is one of the first to come to mind, although there was more self-awareness in the writing there.

If a hero were to say it was too dangerous to risk the possibility that a random infected redshirt might contaminate the Atlantis/SGC/Enterprise/whatever, we'd be expected to either agree or at least see it as a reasonable perspective in a tough situation. A characters like Kavanaugh can't just voice a reasonable concern, he has to be made to look like kind of an a-hole in order to justify Weir slapping him down even if he has a point. And again, the reason the point isn't seen as reasonable is only because the main protagonists are the ones in danger.

With that said, I don't know if the incident stinks up the episode quite as much for me as it seemed to for Chuck. Granted that Weir's poor leadership is pretty egregious in this case, but it's not an uncommon setup.

[Yerushalmi]

I don't know - I simply didn't see it this way. This is one of my favorite episodes of the series, and Weir making bad decisions simply didn't affect my assessment of it.

After all, in her argument with Rodney she is unequivocally presented as being wrong. (I might be wrong, but I seem to remember another episode later in the series with an identical argument: Rodney is checking a series of things methodically, somebody suggests doing it at random because "what if the last one is correct", and he points out that that's idiotic.)

[Admiral X]

Stuff like this is what made me think of this series as Stargate's Voyager. I saw a lot of the same mistakes made as far as the writers apparently being afraid to show the lead character being wrong in any way because she's a woman, and because they apparently don't know what real leadership actually looks like, you get things like Weir threatening to condemn a scientist to a slow death basically for voicing a valid concern and then calling her her reaction to this. And of course they double down on this by just making the character an ass monkey to justify the way Weir and her clique treat him from day one.

[thevirtualjim]

His assessment of Weir's leadership is very similar to what i think of Janeway, especially in her interactions with 7 of 9 - the leader is in the wrong but the show does all it can to make it seem like they are in the right and it just ends up looking bad.

[CrypticMirror]

After all, in her argument with Rodney she is unequivocally presented as being wrong. (I might be wrong, but I seem to remember another episode later in the series with an identical argument: Rodney is checking a series of things methodically, somebody suggests doing it at random because "what if the last one is correct", and he points out that that's idiotic.)

Yes, but Rodney has "name in the titles" character privilege.

[Ghilz]

I honestly had forgotten this was the Kavanaugh episode when I requested it. I'm highly amused by the rant.

That said I love this episode. It's a pretty damn great bottle episode. With clear stakes, and clever solutions.

Yes, but Rodney has "name in the titles" character privilege.

Even in Universe Rodney kinda will tell people to eat shit if he knows they are wrong. Plus in this particular scenario it's his own life on the line

[bluebydefault]

I think it would have been different if Kavanaugh had several times before voiced an opinion that seemed to suggest he was only concerned with saving himself. Maybe wouldn't move off from his original idea after she told him to move on into something more productive because of seemingly being afraid. But honestly, him just voicing it that once wasn't enough to dress him down in front of people. And the threat was a whole new level of bad. Maybe Weir needs an evil shoulder spider?

The thing is that there was a missed opportunity here. A better way of telling an ongoing story about leadership here. These characters could butt heads but not letting it resort to name calling and threats. I think there could have been some interesting side stories or a bottle episode that would come out of it.

I always hated how forced the sexual tension felt between Weir and Shepard. Just never bought it. I think the best leader on the show was Carter. If I'm honest Weir never really was a strong character. She wasn't horrible but I feel like they tried to do things like that to make her more interesting and it never worked.

[Yukaphile]

That would have been quite hard to manage this early in the series, since good writing takes time to develop. About justifying the decision here and not later, I mean.

I mean, even though DS9, for example, had the backdrop of TNG to fall on, it still took a while to get to where it would be.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I like Weir, but it's kind of in spite of the writing for her character being rather poor overall. As Chuck alluded to, throughout the show's entire run, the stance of the expedition ends up being almost diametrically opposed to Weir's supposed strengths. In the end she just looks weak, constantly giving into to Sheppard's way of doing things and taking a very aggressive stance in that galaxy.

I like Carter too, but it never really made sense for her to be the choice for that role (in-universe).

My favorite Atlantis leader might just be Woolsey, partly because he is flawed and isn't on board with the rest of the stars 100% of the time. In his case, they work through it and make him a better than expected leader.

[Yukaphile]

I mean, I can't speak to this from experience, I am still on Season 5 SG-1.